In game priorities and time management.

Hi Troopers, I just wanted to put out a new thread to find out what others are doing or not doing to manage the ever growing list of potential achievements.
What are your priorities? I will admit I spend a few dollars mainly on ironite, but I have been totally blown away by the shear number of troopers that seem to have accumulated Dark Lilith in her various forms and Lucifer in a short period of time.
I should be able to completely awaken my first Lord of Light in the next day or so, but how did so many people claim these awesome characters? did they pay for them some how or score them through souls when they were available?
Or did they simply do the work?
And what about the ever growing list of dungeons to conquer? I have finished Viral dungeon, Infernal dungeon but the others are a mish mash for me..
I guess I’m thinking that getting Dark Lilith is priority No.1

Does anybody else out there wonder if their slipping behind at the hands of RNG ? All the money in the world it seems won’t guarantee you specific characters, so which dungeons do we postpone in favour of others?
I guess these questions I’m aiming at mainly at senior forum members or players, but I’m keen to hear everyone’s thoughts.
To me there’s simply too much to handle right now..

What’s your thoughts?

Lilith is better than Lucifer I have both fully awakened but I don't have MALAKOV and Van Helsing but I don't have more than 3000 ironite so I must slow down for month or two to collect resources!

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Originally Posted by Ip4

Lilith is better than Lucifer I have both fully awakened but I don't have MALAKOV and Van Helsing but I don't have more than 3000 ironite so I must slow down for month or two to collect resources!

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That’s exactly what I mean, IP4, I never ever have 3000+ ironite, I try to hover around 1000 at least...
All my resources apart form iron coins are mediocre by average standards I’d say.
I used to have well over 100 M gold but that is dwindling with the costs of awakening characters and creating full sets of Talisman and the rate that new characters are being created....

I know what you mean Rags. A lot of people have a bunch of awakened characters.

I usually buy the ironite drip pack every month and maybe something else from time to time. Dark Lilith and Lucifer came around at a time when I had accumulated about 13000 ironite, so I ended up with the frags for both. I haven't farmed LOL 11-15 as much as I should, so I need to work on getting more awakening materials. I also need to get 2 more characters from the Raven dugeon as well. But right now I'm trying to finish off acquiring the Van Helsing Ed. Remember a time when running troopers through powerslave was about all there was to do at times and you had to really think about who to put skill shards on because they were so rare.

Dreamer,

13000?!?! Jeez, I thought I was good at 2k! I feel like a spendthrift!

What does your daily grind look like that you end up stockpiling that much? Or is it a case of the drips helping out that much?

The Wicker Evolved Characters from the Raven's Alter dungeon are not nearly as feeble as I thought they were. I just picked them up the past couple days. While it's true they aren't at the level of fully awakened LOLs or Dark Lilith/Lucifer, they are a close second once awakened a few times. Bonus are the 3 star evo runes and awakening frags dropped. And extra bonus is the achievements can be hit relatively quickly in comparison to the Dark Lilith/Lucifer achievements.

I'd be crestfallen if I needed to try and get Dark Lilith or Lucifer... with the need to fully awaken all LOLs.. that's at LEAST like 70 million gold.. and 500+ evo stones each class. Not to mention the multitude of 4 and 5 star colored awakening materials necessary. I'd be apt to postpone this directly and merely focus on getting the LOLs to begin with... So, Frontier Coins to purchase - ( W-M-G-S-C in that order :) )... Then run LOL 14 for awakening materials - they seem to drop more from 14 than they do from 15 for me, other than the 5 star colorless awakening runes.

The reality is you simply CAN'T keep up with character releases as they are currently paced without spending money.. at least for ironite for mega-refills. I spent 4 days grinding, grinding, grinding, grinding, Dracula's dungeon... mega-refill after mega-refill after mega-refill it was so tedious and boring.. I broke down and eventually bought FotD frags after about 30 souls with only 3 and 4 star characters dropping. It was either buy the frags with bonus ironite.. or buy ironite for more mega-refills. Got VH and the Gunner Wolf (had everything else via cashing in frags I had and using them for the mistaken early release).. and was done... 10 more days grinding would have had me throwing the iPad out the window. I kind of suspect that's sort of the plan... irritate users enough that they spend.

The only thing that's really clear is if there's an event going on with new characters.. it's in your best interest to do what you can to get those characters during the event... Sometimes that's enough, other times it's not. The only thing worse than grinding for 2 days for 10 souls only to see 3 and 4 star characters drop is to have to spend 7000+ Frontier coins, then 70+ Mil gold, then collect 1800+ evo stones.... then run something 500 times....

The pure nature of the app is spend $$$$$ if you want to keep up.

Best thing you can do is just stop playing.. and I really should heed my own advice.

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Originally Posted by Tengu316

Dreamer,

13000?!?! Jeez, I thought I was good at 2k! I feel like a spendthrift!

What does your daily grind look like that you end up stockpiling that much? Or is it a case of the drips helping out that much?

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I try my best to save the ironite for characters. I do everything I can not to spend it if I can help it. And I hoard a lot of souls so that I can take advantage of sacrifice events. Vortex fills can drop big chunks of ironite at times (I had a 300 drop yesterday). The price of farming these dungeons is making it difficult to be thrifty though. Also a couple hundred ironite comes from the arena each week and the daily & weekly dungeons sometimes drop a decent amount of ironite.

@Dreamer, thanks, mate! I'll watch the spending closer. 'Ppreciate it!

The prices of the dungeons is beyond insane to me! I've only been playing since May, but it sure seems to me like no dungeon should EVER be more than about 10 SoT. 30 is just NUTS and keeps me from playing them hardly at all (my big ironite expenditures lately).

As for the OP, Rags, I just stockpile what I can to blow on characters. With a little luck -- okay, a metric shit-ton of luck -- the RNG will be merciful and I can get what I want from the event. I don't do dungeons much because they put such a huge dent in resources for me and, again, there's no keeping up for me.

Rags you have been my trooper for a long time, I hope this glimpse inside my Legacy world helps. I skipped getting many of the recent special characters from play Airstrip, Infernal, Trooper, Ravens Altar dungeon for 30 SoT a run a zillion times. Don't have the Magma, Fury less Trooper Ed, Malakov, etc because the expense was HUGE and reward not important. Every character gets outdated and collects dust after a few weeks or maybe months. Charlotte is really the only one with staying power, Alex came up with advent of new Talisman setups. All these other challenges were expensive hoops to jump through for 1 more Eddie I didn't need. I DO go for the hi ticket big reward challenges like the Mayan and more recently the Lucifer one. Compensation included valuable rewards, things I put to use, not dusty junk.
I started banking ironite, enough to ensure I was going to get the event character through fragments if not from a event soul drop. Flight of Icarus Ed was first time I did this, he and all the Minotaurs are very useful and worth my 7k ironite expense. This same amount could have gotten me through a Viral or Trooper dungeon challenge along with buying keys and what do I get? Dust collecting clowns I use once every 2 weeks in Gauntlet? No.
Banked ironite since this one for LoL event, waiting impatiently for the third phase to cash in. Saved over 10k ironite, no purchasing, got 2 Lucifers from fragment/soul drop and all the Lords from frags and frontier purchase. Then blew everything I had farming LoL XV for Awakening materials, wasn't fast enough so spent $120 on store packs to get all the 3star colored purple and gold stones. I rationalized expense by not having paid for ironite for a while, or the $20 set of new talisman or new pay only Eddies. Getting these new characters to be at their potential seems worthwhile. Ed Hunter, Gangland, Where Eagles Dare, etc are junk. Good if someone needs every Eddie to win top Gauntlet spot, but really not worth the expense for me.
So I have a huge list of unachieved achievements, will not go after them either, because I am broke from Awakening and still need more of this super expensive stuff so I can get the Dark Lilith challenge done. Better use of effort to get the 6 Lords, Dark Lilith and Lucifer all max awakened instead of having all achievements cleared and end up with dusty awakened woodland creatures, Where Eagles Dare and Magma Ed, or even Malakov, who is now no threat with Lucifer Morningstar cleaning all those nasty silver effects. That's all he was about anyway.

I found out hard way every single Eddie counts in Gauntlet. So i'm trying to keep reserve of 4000 ironite for sudden event when you can get special Eddie. The plan went out from the windows when Awakening event hit. I calculated time needed to grind Dark Lilith and spent every bit of ironite on event souls and managed to get her. I have been struggling since because of low ironite. Lucifer was lucky strike from free event souls. I have now plenty of awakenable chars but no means for upgrade. :(

I have all the lords of light at 3* awakened or above, I have Warrior and Magis ready to awaken for the final time as soon as I can get the class 5* awakening shards I need, only 1 to go in the warriors case. The damn things aren’t dropping from lol 14 or 15, so I have to farm for the awakening frags and buy the right class awakening packs when I accumulate 1000 frags.

It’s very tedious... while that has been virtually non stop all week even while I sleep, I’m trying to spend a little time in arena to at the very least stay in the top 100... then there’s Gauntlet which I usually would be all done by this late stage.

I still have not attempted SSS this time round, I just don’t have the time....

Thanks for the input infinite dreamer, I’m thinking that only the rare few scored Lilith and Lucifer through opening souls at the time, the rest like you have chipped away at it and collected frags, for me it’s the dreaded way Yup has spoken of...

Does anyone actually know what it costs in gold over all to fully awaken from zero one lol? Now multiply that by every awakenable character, and that doesn’t include other resources...

I guess 12 months ago most of us had achieved all there was to achieve, how the tables have turned...

I do believe they have purposefully introduced achievement that are near impossible to hit in less than 6 months or a year. But they don't plan on players hitting them sooner.. even if it's a small handful of players.

Face it.. if you aren't in the top of Pvp.. or don't care about PvP at all.. why do you need Lucifer, Dark Lilith, Major Malkov, LOLs??? Answer is.. you really don't. I can auto farm anything other than "special" dungeons with any decent 5 star characters. I don't need the OP toons from events.

1 new Eddie means 1 more Gauntlet battle.. if that's not a concern.. you don't really need the "latest and greatest" Eddie.

The only driving factor for most is either PvP ranking or the "collection", FOMO, factor. Frankly without PvP.. I suspect many players wouldn't ever bother with the high cost of these special dungeons.

I agree that SOT costs are ridiculous.. as I posted before NO DUNGEON anywhere should cost more than 10SOT to run.. that's 12 runs via natural SOT. When looking at achievements of 300, 400, 500, 800 + runs.. I think allowing a measly 12 runs is, at a minimum, respectful to users... but apparently that's just too much to ask from the devs.

The fact that the "daily" dungeon basically eats ALL your SOT in 10 minutes.. is laughable.. that should be a 2 SOT per run dungeon... and why I've collected nearly 100 daily keys.

There is clear distain or contempt for users from my perspective --- doing everything they can to ensure you pay them as much as possible wither it's warranted or not. They don't give ANYTHING to users without some exorbitant cost somewhere - either time commitment or money....

Yeah that’s true Yup, in my case I like to be able to say “I still got it” so I hang around the arena top 100.
Being number 1 is done for me, I have no wish to put myself through all that work again, if it starts to become a chore it’s no longer fun.
As for Gauntlet? I still would like to finish No.1 but I’m happy in the top 50.

Edsel many thanks for your opening up on how you deal with it all.

The silly thing for me is I already know much of what your talking about, but still go and do many of the same stupid things every event....

It’s not going to get any easier now only harder with Clans and Silent Planet just around the corner, not to mention Isle of Avalon..

I guess I’ll stick to my personal long term goal and chip away at the lol awakenings to attain Dark Lilith.

I expect a pat on the back when I eventually achieve the goal in 6 months time lol!

I've about given up on the game, it is just ridiculous waste of time and money. I see why my uncle gave me his account and now chuckles when I complain.

Just keep in mind during the Q and A session they indicated they were slowling down on new releases. Just think what would the game be like if the kept releases at full pace. I think they are milking the new players to earn the new OPs and jump the whole game.

They have made it clear you need a few key toons/talisman to complete the special dungeons. Earn the new releases or buy the required releases or be left 8n 5he dust.

The key for me was realizing I can’t chase everything anymore in this game. Even if I was a big $$$ spender I think trying to chase everything would be a chore. I’ve learned to pick and choose the goals I find important and focus on those.

Sadly despite this approach I am still finding my goals slipping out of reach as the game progresses. I just want to fully awaken one LOL and finding the 5 star colored shards to do it seems ridiculous and nearly impossible.

Farm for the frags and buy them in the stores special tab Ezz, it’s far easier, time and resource consuming yes but a sure way to get what you want.
You may even be able to nab the odd 5* awakening shard in the process.

Thanks rags - yeah that’s the plan. It would just be nice if the 5 star colored Awakening shards would drop somewhere. I’ve run LOL XV several hundred times and received none. 1000 frags per shard is steep when you need 5.

I agree Ezz but the Devs aren’t listening...

I usually ignore them entirely because the SoT cost being 15 or more is too much for me to willingly want to do. The only ones I completed are US Calvary, Magma Beast and, just a few days ago, Major Malakov. The mythical achievements, forget it, not worth the ironite and time investment

Yeah it has certainly been a drain on resources... I did just awaken the Warrior lol for the final time and I’m 10.65 Million worse off for it, but that should keep me going for a while...

If we had all refused to cough up that much sot per round I guess they would have changed it but not everyone’s on the forums....

On a side note Amathir are you able to explain the clan name Jomsvikings here or is it personel?

Musical group.

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Originally Posted by rags-6094

Yeah it has certainly been a drain on resources... I did just awaken the Warrior lol for the final time and I’m 10.65 Million worse off for it, but that should keep me going for a while...

If we had all refused to cough up that much sot per round I guess they would have changed it but not everyone’s on the forums....

On a side note Amathir are you able to explain the clan name Jomsvikings here or is it personel?

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Jomsvikings were viking mercenaries from around the years 1000-1100. also an album title from some band called amon amarth... nothing special compared to Sydney's finest Sad-ex!

Sydney has no night life anymore all nightclubs and pubs have a curfew type arrangement due to too many punch drunk killings..
I hear whispers that may change soon so where has this SYDNEY band been playing?

I feel that the new requirements for toons and dungeons are insane. I mean, all MAX AWAKENED Lord of Lights and Lucifer for one toon is just going too far, for me at least

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Originally Posted by rags-6094

Yeah it has certainly been a drain on resources... I did just awaken the Warrior lol for the final time and I’m 10.65 Million worse off for it, but that should keep me going for a while...

If we had all refused to cough up that much sot per round I guess they would have changed it but not everyone’s on the forums....

On a side note Amathir are you able to explain the clan name Jomsvikings here or is it personel?

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I'm a fan of Amon Amarth and one of my favorite albums is called Jomsvikings.

The Jomsvikings themselves were an order of Viking mercenaries or brigands of the 10th century and 11th century. They were staunchly Pagan and dedicated to the worship of such deities as Odin and Thor. They reputedly would fight for any lord able to pay their substantial fees and occasionally fought alongside Christian rulers. Although they were Pagan, the institutions of the Jomsvikings in some ways anticipated those of the Christian Knightly Orders of the later Middle Ages.

They were pretty picky about who they let in, Once admitted, the Jomsvikings required adherence to a strict code of conduct in order to instill a sense of military discipline among its members. Any violation of these rules could be punished with immediate expulsion from the order. Each Jomsviking was bound to defend his brothers, as well as to avenge their deaths if necessary. He was forbidden to speak ill of his fellows or to quarrel with them. Blood feuds between members were to be mediated by Jomsviking officers. Jomsvikings were forbidden to show fear or to flee in the face of an enemy of equal or inferior strength, though orderly retreat in the face of vastly outnumbering forces appears to have been acceptable. All spoils of battle were to be equally distributed among the entire brotherhood. No Jomsviking was permitted to be absent from Jomsborg for more than three days without the permission of the brotherhood.

I just think it sounds neat lol

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Originally Posted by rags-6094

Sydney has no night life anymore all nightclubs and pubs have a curfew type arrangement due to too many punch drunk killings..
I hear whispers that may change soon so where has this SYDNEY band been playing?

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Also I didn't read the answers from other folks before I copy-pasted their Wikipedia page lmao

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Originally Posted by Ezz

The key for me was realizing I can’t chase everything anymore in this game. Even if I was a big $$$ spender I think trying to chase everything would be a chore. I’ve learned to pick and choose the goals I find important and focus on those.

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This. Ive gone down the path of savings, skipping some chars, so that I can be sure to get one when I NEED to. I decided to do that after having a crack at a few events in a row and getting nix after burning maybe half the ironite to get there. The risk on event souls is just too much. So yeah, gotta keep the ironite up high enough that if you go for it, you can be 100% sure of getting what you want/need.

The hardest part is working out what your need. I probably should have gone hard at dark lillith, but instead went for Lucifer.

But yeah, like I have said before, I think you just erally have to put to the side the idea of having everything and instead be more focused.... And more importantly, play what you enjoy! If you enjoy being top 100 in arena, good on ya, and who gives a stuff about the other grinding :)

Amon Amarth! Jomsviking is a killer album. Johan Hegg is awesome...

Also, everyone should check out GimmeRadio.com (also an app for android and Apple).

Extreme metal radio, all day every day.

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Originally Posted by Yup

I agree that SOT costs are ridiculous.. as I posted before NO DUNGEON anywhere should cost more than 10SOT to run.. that's 12 runs via natural SOT.

The fact that the "daily" dungeon basically eats ALL your SOT in 10 minutes.. is laughable.. that should be a 2 SOT per run dungeon... and why I've collected nearly 100 daily keys.

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The SoT costs of higher level stuff really surprised me. Makes it very hard to run all your troopers each day if you're doing any dungeons or even BNW/LoL stuff unless you're buying refills. The daily dungeon, what feels like it should be a reward, costing so much SoT, is just plain strange. Nice when it pays for itself, but that should really be the default.

A great post you opened there! I was also thinking about my playing style and if I should or could change something, as I see myself falling behind recently. But to be honest, I don't see that many options (apart of spending money of course, but I stopped that). My list of missing characters used to be pretty short, but the game changed and now my list is so long that I cannot even do the colour coding anymore, as the sig is getting too long. I think I already found very effective ways to save ironite and to play as effective as possible, but this is all consumed easily by the heavy SoT demands in the new game features, mainly dungeons. It all started a while ago.

The change started (in my pov) with the release of the passive Eddies. Only Wickerman was easy to get and Samurai showed up a second time. The next step was to introduce the pay-only-characters starting with the wolf but spreading to Eddies quickly.

The next big change was the introduction of the permanent dungeons instead (or in addition) to the event dungeons. I really do not like that feature for several reasons and all the consequences that are connected to it. Yes, some long-term goals are really nice to have, but the needed amount of time and SoT is out of any line! From this perspective, the mega-event was great in terms of creating a huge fear of missing out that will push players into spending cash for event souls in the future, as noone wants to grind a year to get an old event character.

I did the grind for Malakhov, as he dominated the pvp meta, but much later than many other players. Now he seems not to be that important anymore. I did the grind for Beast Ed, but more for the reaper talis. Maybe I should have saved that ironite, but did we expect the LoL dungeons to come? Plus raven, maya, airstrip and so on? I didn't. And so far I skipped raven, maya and airstrip.

The introduction of the LoL dungeons was the next big thing and quite a killer for me. The mega-event was nice and most players should have gotten at least one LoL (like me) plus some cool talis sets. But I did not really get the consequence of having (or better not having) the LoLs, Dark Lilith and Lucifer. Now I have such an ultra long way in front of me, that does not really help my motivation. Getting Lucifer may take like a year for me I'd guess and long before that, Lucifer is (hopefully) replaced by the next overpowered character.
But where should this lead to? I don't really know when the limit is reached in terms of ultra powerful characters and skills? Personally, KP was somewhat the limit for me already with his skill to just remove buffs and apply curse and permadeath every turn. That was already too much in my perspective, as it just nullifies the majority of all other skills and talis sets that apply buffs. We have seen now that there can be even more powerful skills and talis, but still there is some sort of limit. Will we see a skill that just deletes a character from your enemies account? A lot was released around reducing damage, now we see tallis that just avoid damage completely up to 2 rounds. Will the next ones extend that to 5 rounds? It is clear that this would be complete bullshit and the danger is real that by the constant "need" to develop (and sell) characters and talis that are more powerful than what we had before, things will become even more senseless and ridiculous (if we cannot say this about several aspects already today).

So what to do? What are the options?
1) invest (a lot of) money
2) accept to fall behind
3) skip events and dungeons (which also means you may fall behind)
4) improve resource management in order to get ironite and spend it very wisely and only if it's absolute worth it

Honestly I don't see another option (apart from just having luck with the free event souls), but feel free to correct me. Improving resource management can help a bit, but as I said before, this is all taken up quickly that you won't notice a bit of saved ironite here and there. As long as characters, dungeons and talis are released in the recent pacing, there is no way to keep up with everything, especially as the devs can react to what we players do. Example: gold price to summon souls was increased, we players were shocked. New ways to get gold were given and players learnt how to deal with the gold issue, so many players found a way to stockpile gold again. What is the response of the devs? Release cosmics that cost a lot to evolve, release awakening that costs a lot and smash out a spending event "forcing" us to spend >300 M gold! And surprise surprise, you can buy gold for cash with some new "best value" offers.

To me it is very clear that with the change from NF to Navigator, the perspective has changed clearly to generating more income. And using Maiden's tour over the last 2 years to get more players into the game - which is nice (as long as the servers could handle it ;) ). Probably it was the right step for the game (and the company), as our relatively small group of longterm players has a different playing and spending behaviour than the new guys that want to catch up with characters, relics, talis and awakening (while the latter is more oriented to us longterm players as we have e.g. the evo stones stockpiled. This was also the reason why so many other new resources were released).

Probably mobile games are just not meant for longterm players, especially nowadays with this infinite offer of games that show up every day. Problem is: Maiden fans have already proven to have a longterm interest in something. I guess most mobile games like to have a rush of new players that buy to be competitive, play for a while, lose interest and leave the game (and server) for the next "generation" to start the cycle again. In that regard: honest congratulations to evolve the game in a way to stay interesting for old players but also getting a lot of new players into addiction! Still I can't get rid of the feeling that the past years were mainly meant to generate addiction and use that now and milk the playerbase plus the newcomers.

Back to topic: I will go for a mixture of (2), (3) and (4), so a bit of acceptance to fall behind, skipping some dungeons (e.g. maya, airstrip and raven sofar) and improve my management even more. I was saving up a lot of resources to be able to react to certain events etc. I am disappointed that I did not realise how important dark lilith would have been to get the shortcut to Lucifer. But well, this can happen if you have a life and a second job next to lotb ;)

Sorry for long post, potato :)

I essentially try to do what I can in each event. I am not wiling to buy resources so I do not spend money on them.....ever. The current Van Helsing event I think I can complete as I gained a massive amount of ironite from the sac event (I spent a load of gold - around 120m in BoS not sure on vortexes achieved but went from 90 Alchemist frags up to 570!). But that is all fine - I gained loads of missing characters through the last few events and what you could get from them....not sure when Gunner Mino will be mine but not soon it seems!

I have managed to complete Raven, Airstrip to get the characters as well as one Mayan....I can only really do this as I can play nearly all day.

The Dracula event is a monster for sure - it is the longest grind but as I get zero luck in event souls it is what I have to do get the characters......I have all but VH and Gunner Wolf so far but they all came from Halloween souls, sac event etc

Still no easy way to get Lucifer or Dark Lilith as had no way to get them in events so that will just need to be long term. I have a maxed WLOL and a Raven Alter character and several others in various stages so again that will just take time and grinding so they can add to the collection.

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Originally Posted by scott-5496

I essentially try to do what I can in each event. I am not wiling to buy resources so I do not spend money on them.....ever. The current Van Helsing event I think I can complete as I gained a massive amount of ironite from the sac event (I spent a load of gold - around 120m in BoS not sure on vortexes achieved but went from 90 Alchemist frags up to 570!). But that is all fine - I gained loads of missing characters through the last few events and what you could get from them....not sure when Gunner Mino will be mine but not soon it seems!

I have managed to complete Raven, Airstrip to get the characters as well as one Mayan....I can only really do this as I can play nearly all day.

The Dracula event is a monster for sure - it is the longest grind but as I get zero luck in event souls it is what I have to do get the characters......I have all but VH and Gunner Wolf so far but they all came from Halloween souls, sac event etc

Still no easy way to get Lucifer or Dark Lilith as had no way to get them in events so that will just need to be long term. I have a maxed WLOL and a Raven Alter character and several others in various stages so again that will just take time and grinding so they can add to the collection.

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I reckon the achievement for dark lilith should be not for fully awakened LoLs, but just having them in the first place. It would be a mammoth enough task as it is! I mean, I smashed a good chunk of the awakening events, but missed dark lilith, deleted a heap of ironite and only managed to get 4 LoLs and Lucifer. I still need to spend 5k FC for the other Lols before I can even start grinding for mats to awaken them all and then grind a crap tonne of SoT to get Dark Lillith. its a bit too much imo.