Moonchild... The good the bad and the ugly character review

Ok let me start out by saying I like the character all in all. But people go its over powered when you do this and this it can't be dealt with blah blah blah. Is it over powered? Nes is my final answer. In other words, no but yes. It has issues is more like it. And with a little tweaking it would be better. However the glitches with the character are worse than the issues it has.

I can never remember all aspects of a character without looking it up so I cut and pasted them below for simplicity.

BORN TO DIE
• Deals one hit of true and one hit of magic damage to all enemies.
• 35% Chance to inflict Doom on each enemy for 2 turns.
• Lower ATK and MAGIC of all enemies for 2 turns.
• Deal Additional True and Magic damage that has a 50% chance to Critically Strike for each enemy that is stunned.

The primary attack. Nothing really wonky here except the 35% to inflict doom on an attack that doesn't cost and isn't a fury. That said whens the last time it actually triggered? I think it is actually a lot lower than 35% which it really should be.


MANDRAKE SCREAM - Power Cost: 7
• Remove All Golden Effects from each enemy.
• 75% Chance to inflict Perfect Stun on each enemy for 2 turns.
• Cleanse and Heal a random ally to full HP for each enemy that is stunned.
• Instantly gain an Extra Turn.

Ok this is where it starts to get a little questionable. Remove ALL golden effects but it leaves everything else plus it costs 7 ok I can live with this. 75% to inflict perfect stun however I have issues with. But I have issues with any and all effects with a probability greater than 50%. This should probably be dropped to 40% from the 75%. But the fun part is the cleanse and heal an ally followed with get an extra turn. While the extra turn shouldn't be too much of an impact since there is a 7 power cost it seems that the power generation can get a little wonky. Pretty sure I have seen him go a few times in a row without stopping and not having all characters stunned, but I could have missed it with over lapping vulns etc. Now the heal part is really where I take issue. It doesn't say a thing about healing himself, a random ally sure but not himself. That should be corrected so he can not heal himself at all. This would also speed things up with killing him.


SEVEN ANGELS, SEVEN DEMONS - Passive
Immune to all negative and beneficial effects, including Silver and Golden effects, for the duration of battle.
All enemies’ attacks will miss unless they are Perfect Attacks.
This skill can only be countered by Passive Disable applied at the start of battle

The passive however is where things go from needing a tweak to fecking stupid and glitched. Immune to all negative and beneficial effects including gold etc... Um WTF does this mean? If you read and interpret it literally, it does mean that there are no effects that should affect this character. But it doesn't say anything about talisman effects you say. Well now what talisman effects actually stick to this character? Stat effects, labyrinth, and not much more. Shield effects don't stick to well and considering labyrinth talismans are a "shield" type effect it should be classified as a beneficial effect. It also means that no stat raising talisman should affect him either since they are beneficial effects. This really needs to be figured out and corrected.
My FAVORITE glitch in this character has to be the perfect attack item. Where in the 7 hells does it say it protects everyone? Cause if this protects everyone than guess what every other character should be immune to all negative and beneficial effects.
The counter to this with passive disable is nice but how many characters have passive disable active in the first round. You go first you have 2 power 5 at most and most characters with passive disable require 6 power or its a fury attack. And that is so not happening in the first round. This should be changed to a 50% chance for passive disable to affect the character regardless of what round it is. But I bet that there are issues with being able to do that.

Final thoughts are the character needs tweaking. It really isn't over powered but it does not work the way it should. The Devs need to determine how this character should work, correct the glitches with it, tweak the specs and go from there.
Basically this is a decent character that is suffering from bad code and an even worse description of its skills.

Oh and as far as the labyrinth talisman is concerned meh. Interesting side note here is that it seems the labyrinth talisman doesn't work as effectively on this character as it does on others. It seems that the perfect hit requirement over rides the labyrinth talisman to a point and that if you have 10 perfect hits half are going to land and cause damage. And if the healing effect didn't affect him it really wouldn't be much of an issue. About the only thing I would want to see is that when the draw screen pops up its 20 rounds instead of 10.

No, I can't agree to any of the points you made sadly.
I think you just have another imagination of what the Moonchild should be than the devs. But I like it how it is. You can beat it, and it got a little nerf with the 7 rounds, so the fights aren't that long anymore. I think nothing more should be changed with him.

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Originally Posted by drrchmnd

Ok let me start out by saying I like the character all in all. But people go its over powered when you do this and this it can't be dealt with blah blah blah. Is it over powered? Nes is my final answer. In other words, no but yes. It has issues is more like it. And with a little tweaking it would be better. However the glitches with the character are worse than the issues it has.

I can never remember all aspects of a character without looking it up so I cut and pasted them below for simplicity.

BORN TO DIE
• Deals one hit of true and one hit of magic damage to all enemies.
• 35% Chance to inflict Doom on each enemy for 2 turns.
• Lower ATK and MAGIC of all enemies for 2 turns.
• Deal Additional True and Magic damage that has a 50% chance to Critically Strike for each enemy that is stunned.

The primary attack. Nothing really wonky here except the 35% to inflict doom on an attack that doesn't cost and isn't a fury. That said whens the last time it actually triggered? I think it is actually a lot lower than 35% which it really should be.

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I think you are MASSIVELY incorrect here. The trigger is far more often than 35% and always has been. I think what you are neglecting to consider is that this character (other factors as well, but largely moonchild doom) has drastically changed the entire game. I wouldnt enter an arena battle with less than 3 of the 4 characters wearing serenity talisman (either cosmic or the full 3 set). So... yeah it doesnt trigger often... because it doesnt have the option.

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Originally Posted by drrchmnd

SEVEN ANGELS, SEVEN DEMONS - Passive
Immune to all negative and beneficial effects, including Silver and Golden effects, for the duration of battle.
All enemies’ attacks will miss unless they are Perfect Attacks.
This skill can only be countered by Passive Disable applied at the start of battle

The passive however is where things go from needing a tweak to fecking stupid and glitched. Immune to all negative and beneficial effects including gold etc... Um WTF does this mean? If you read and interpret it literally, it does mean that there are no effects that should affect this character. But it doesn't say anything about talisman effects you say. Well now what talisman effects actually stick to this character? Stat effects, labyrinth, and not much more. Shield effects don't stick to well and considering labyrinth talismans are a "shield" type effect it should be classified as a beneficial effect. It also means that no stat raising talisman should affect him either since they are beneficial effects. This really needs to be figured out and corrected.
My FAVORITE glitch in this character has to be the perfect attack item. Where in the 7 hells does it say it protects everyone? Cause if this protects everyone than guess what every other character should be immune to all negative and beneficial effects.
The counter to this with passive disable is nice but how many characters have passive disable active in the first round. You go first you have 2 power 5 at most and most characters with passive disable require 6 power or its a fury attack. And that is so not happening in the first round. This should be changed to a 50% chance for passive disable to affect the character regardless of what round it is. But I bet that there are issues with being able to do that.

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This shows a complete and fundamental lack of reading comprehension on your part. If you look anywhere else in the game (and the compendium for that matter) the words "negative effect" and "beneficial effect" directly describes the actual physical buffs and debuffs that you see applied to a character. The additional information in the passive description "including Silver and Golden effects" should have further clued you in to that fact. They are not talking about stat increases, they arent talking about direct heals, they are talking about the little blue and gold buffs and red and silver debuffs.

Next, and SO MANY people cannot seem to grasp this concept, he is ONLY open to passive (or perfect) disable at the very start of battle before anyone attacks. NOT THE FIRST TURN OF BATTLE, but at the very beginning before anything happens. Therefore, the only things that can apply it are Madame Fortune, Prisoner, and Killer. There is a chance for Viper to apply if you are going first and have viper on your team, in theory, because it reads "35% Chance to inflict Perfect Corruption and Perfect Disable on each enemy for 2 turns every turn." But in practice, I believe the game determines "start of battle" and "start of turn" as 2 separate steps because I never see viper work. I believe that "start of battle" refers to before the coin flip, "start of turn" is after the coin flip has been determined.

Finally, of course the perfect hit (blind effect) effect applies to everyone. It is so completely obvious that i cannot understand why people are struggling with this at all. Read the passive... "All enemies’ attacks will miss unless they are Perfect Attacks." It doesnt say "All enemies’ attacks targeting you...." It simply says ALL ENEMY ATTACKS WILL MISS. Period. so all of the moonchild's enemies must hit perfect or they will miss regardless of who they are attacking.

The problem i have with the moonchild (and I pointed this out when I was the only one who had him) is that the passive disable should be allowed at any time. Same with Alex. There is no reason that you should have such a tiny window of "at start of battle" to apply it. Additionally, once it is applied you can try to chain it each turn by reapplying before the initial one drops off, but if he gets cleansed it is all over. And currently wrathchild cleanses on death, forge cleanses when anyone hit 1hp, serenity cleanses on death.... the list goes on. There is absolutely no way to maintain the passive disable. Now regardless of all the other implications that carries, it means he cannot be permadeathed or perfect deathed. Meaning he can be revived later even if you can somehow manage to kill him.

Now because he cannot be disabled, then he cannot have any debuffs at all. So in addition to the previously mentioned permadeath issues, you cannot prevent healing or reduce healing. so with Sacred talisman hitting him with a random direct heal, the chance of his power move targeting himself with a heal and the flat out ridiculous Vamp cosmic heals, he simply cannot be killed in any reasonable timeframe.

I continue to have a problem with Moonchild. Sure, I can kill him, even with vampiric. But it still takes a shitload of time, and talk about boring! Even with the 7 turn limit, it is still the same since most power moves are actually inferior to the multi-hit regular move (against Moonchild because he does not take hits). So, it just is the same bullshit where you are pounding away at a Labyrinth vampiric Moonchild until you get lucky enough where he misses a few hits against you and you can finally put him down. The "fix" has not made Arena any better. I agree with Natasmai that the passive disable should be at any time. That would improve things a little maybe. To reiterate, my complaint about Moonchild is that the character has made Arena a lot more boring, tedious and even stupid.

My issue with him seems to be the only way to reliably beat a moonchild with labs is to use a moonchild with labs. So arena is not a big deal - just fight fire with fire. Problem tho is the game repeatedly using him on the gauntlet teams. Once you have used your own moonchild good luck. I’ve thrown the best toons and best talis at him and nobody has been able to take him down except my own moonchild. So if he pops up in SS and SSS more than once your run is basically over.

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Originally Posted by Natasmai

I think you are MASSIVELY incorrect here. The trigger is far more often than 35% and always has been. I think what you are neglecting to consider is that this character (other factors as well, but largely moonchild doom) has drastically changed the entire game. I wouldnt enter an arena battle with less than 3 of the 4 characters wearing serenity talisman (either cosmic or the full 3 set). So... yeah it doesnt trigger often... because it doesnt have the option.

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So your saying that it triggers significantly more often than 35%. Ever consider that might be a glitch effect between the character and the serenity talisman? I might see it trigger once or twice during a fight and thats about it.

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Originally Posted by Natasmai

This shows a complete and fundamental lack of reading comprehension on your part.

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Actually no. I said literal interpretation and that is what I meant. The descriptions about the characters, attacks, passives, furies etc should be written so there is no question about what it does. Yes they are dealing with space constraints which makes it even harder but it isn't an excuse for ambiguity.

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Originally Posted by Natasmai

If you look anywhere else in the game (and the compendium for that matter) the words "negative effect" and "beneficial effect" directly describes the actual physical buffs and debuffs that you see applied to a character. The additional information in the passive description "including Silver and Golden effects" should have further clued you in to that fact. They are not talking about stat increases, they arent talking about direct heals, they are talking about the little blue and gold buffs and red and silver debuffs.

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Ya sure about that? Cause I'm not. Again this gets into the ambiguity in the description. What they really mean is if an icon is going to popup over the character it won't have any effect. Talisman buffs and such work but again if there is an icon it won't work.

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Originally Posted by Natasmai

Next, and SO MANY people cannot seem to grasp this concept, he is ONLY open to passive (or perfect) disable at the very start of battle before anyone attacks. NOT THE FIRST TURN OF BATTLE, but at the very beginning before anything happens. Therefore, the only things that can apply it are Madame Fortune, Prisoner, and Killer. There is a chance for Viper to apply if you are going first and have viper on your team, in theory, because it reads "35% Chance to inflict Perfect Corruption and Perfect Disable on each enemy for 2 turns every turn." But in practice, I believe the game determines "start of battle" and "start of turn" as 2 separate steps because I never see viper work. I believe that "start of battle" refers to before the coin flip, "start of turn" is after the coin flip has been determined.

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Thus it boils down to when the start of the battle is. Which basically means it ain't never ever gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by Natasmai

Finally, of course the perfect hit (blind effect) effect applies to everyone. It is so completely obvious that i cannot understand why people are struggling with this at all. Read the passive... "All enemies’ attacks will miss unless they are Perfect Attacks." It doesnt say "All enemies’ attacks targeting you...." It simply says ALL ENEMY ATTACKS WILL MISS. Period. so all of the moonchild's enemies must hit perfect or they will miss regardless of who they are attacking.

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That's kinda the problem it doesn't say one way or the other. Typically when an effect will affect other characters on the team it is spelled out that it impacts other characters. This doesn't say anything about impacting any other characters. And because of that it will be interpreted that it only should impact moonchild.

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Originally Posted by Natasmai

The problem i have with the moonchild (and I pointed this out when I was the only one who had him) is that the passive disable should be allowed at any time. Same with Alex. There is no reason that you should have such a tiny window of "at start of battle" to apply it. Additionally, once it is applied you can try to chain it each turn by reapplying before the initial one drops off, but if he gets cleansed it is all over. And currently wrathchild cleanses on death, forge cleanses when anyone hit 1hp, serenity cleanses on death.... the list goes on. There is absolutely no way to maintain the passive disable. Now regardless of all the other implications that carries, it means he cannot be permadeathed or perfect deathed. Meaning he can be revived later even if you can somehow manage to kill him.

Now because he cannot be disabled, then he cannot have any debuffs at all. So in addition to the previously mentioned permadeath issues, you cannot prevent healing or reduce healing. so with Sacred talisman hitting him with a random direct heal, the chance of his power move targeting himself with a heal and the flat out ridiculous Vamp cosmic heals, he simply cannot be killed in any reasonable timeframe.

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In a nutshell moonchild has a small pile of quirks that need to be tweaked.

Moonchild is fine. W labs & vampires he is an absolute pest. He's not bugged, he just doesnt have a counter that is any form if time saving.

Passive disable might even just be better if it worked! You have to start with PD. If he goes first and you then throw out a passive disable, it doesnt work on him.

Personally I dont think he needs a nerf. There just needs to be a decent counter. My first thought (well after fixing the 1st turn bug) would be to buff quantum talismans. They are great against normal labyrinth characters, but just not good enough to fight moonchild. They need more benefits.

Alternatively, boost another char, maybe someone like lucifer who is good, but lets face it, not good enough considering the heartache it takes to get him! Maybe add quantum talisman type boost to his passive? Kinda make him a moonie killer?

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Originally Posted by drrchmnd

So your saying that it triggers significantly more often than 35%. Ever consider that might be a glitch effect between the character and the serenity talisman? I might see it trigger once or twice during a fight and thats about it.

Quote Originally Posted by Natasmai View Post
Finally, of course the perfect hit (blind effect) effect applies to everyone. It is so completely obvious that i cannot understand why people are struggling with this at all. Read the passive... "All enemies’ attacks will miss unless they are Perfect Attacks." It doesnt say "All enemies’ attacks targeting you...." It simply says ALL ENEMY ATTACKS WILL MISS. Period. so all of the moonchild's enemies must hit perfect or they will miss regardless of who they are attacking.

That's kinda the problem it doesn't say one way or the other. Typically when an effect will affect other characters on the team it is spelled out that it impacts other characters. This doesn't say anything about impacting any other characters. And because of that it will be interpreted that it only should impact moonchild.

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No, I am saying that if there werent serenity talisman everywhere, you would see it happen more often and you wouldnt think that it happens less than 35%. Im saying that it happens far more than you think it does, but the effect is blocked by other means.... serenity, babylon, charlotte preventing silvers. The arena teams are loaded with ways to prevent Doom from happening because you have to be prepared for it. I am saying that your anecdotal assumptions that it isnt triggering often enough is due to smart players being prepared to prevent it.


Regarding the blind effect... It doesnt say that it affects anyone. No where in the description does it say "attacks targeting moonchild will miss...." It says ALL ENEMY ATTACKS WILL MISS. there is no stipulation for who the enemy targets because the target is irrelevant. IF ANY ENEMY ATTACKS A TEAM THAT INCLUDES A MOONCHILD, THE ATTACK MUST LAND PERFECT OR ELSE IT WILL MISS AND THE ENTIRE ATTACK HAS NO EFFECT AT ALL. It is blatantly obvious that is the intention of their words and furthermore it is completely backed up by the actions within the game. The fact that so many people are struggling with this is frustrating the hell out of me.

It is no wonder we cant get this game functioning correctly, most of the people playing it cannot even comprehend whether it is a bug or not, so how can there be any clear and helpful feedback?

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Originally Posted by Natasmai

It is no wonder we cant get this game functioning correctly, most of the people playing it cannot even comprehend whether it is a bug or not, so how can there be any clear and helpful feedback?

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You sir are a self-righteous jackass. Your absolute insistence that what you are saying is 100% truth is absolutely incredible. I would attempt to explain (again) but alas I see no point in doing so. Be seeing you.

If you read the descriptions of his powers and take the verbiage literally, in the plainest sense, and then watch exactly what happens when the character is in a match, it can be observed that he does exactly what the descriptions of his powers says he should be doing.

I can understand someone not liking the character design, but attempting to work backwards from that and parse the grammar of his description, building ad hoc.. ambiguities (?) which attempt to invalidate.. whether the character being built that way is.. a good idea (?) . . . I'm sorry I can't even understand what the argument actually is.

I just got the Moonchild recently (I ended the Moonchild season with 495/500 fragments which annoyed the hell outta me) and I have a question. Because of his Seven Angels, Seven Demons effect, does it not matter which talismans I equip him with? I mean as far as their effects go. Like if I were to put basic fully maxed talismans on him, or fully maxed talismans that are not in complete sets, would it not make any difference if I did that than if I equipped him with fully maxed talismans that are rare and/or actually really useful?

No. I don't know why you would think that, he's not invincible or immortal, talismans matter in exactly the same way as they do for any other character. Almost everyone puts a 5-set of Labyrinth, so when the enemy DOES get a perfect hit, it still doesn't land every time. In the last spot, a good cosmic that DOESN'T work via "beneficial effects" --because he can't get effects. In the top tier of the Arena, many people are using an Echo cosmic. Chance is another one I've used--he can't get the effect, but the talisman has Def and MR stats.