Suspect Discussion: Angel of Fear

What It was Designed For
A moderately strong attacker which enables offensive teams to get extra attacking power if they get the “first blood”.

What We Got
The strongest single-target basic in the game that has a high chance of one of the best crowd-control status effects in the game with the amazing unique utility of granting multiple extra turns on top of one of the highest attack stats with an excellent AoE option.

Why This is a Problem

• Nothing else in the game does the single-target damage this guy does with a basic attack against high HP tarets… and few things could rival it unbuffed even with their power or fury attacks. And it stuns!
• There’s no reason to build anything other than full HP, which is odd for a warrior
• A fully upgraded Angel of Fear can one shot slightly weaker Sentinels, and do well over 50% of the max HP even of a top end Sentinel Soulless Demon or Allied General with… with a basic attack

What We Could Consider Changing

• Lowering the HP scaling of his basic attack (we probably need to do this to a degree anyways; the amount of damage gain per skill level is way more than what is advertised)
• Reducing HP/Attack scaling of his basic attack slightly and changing to physical damage

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Please let us know your thoughts on this character in the comments. Keep in mind that this is not a for sure set of changes we’re going to do to this character; this is merely where our appraisal design-side is of the character, and we want to discuss this more with the community to get a better sense if changes are necessary for this character or if this character is fine as is.

I think it's just his skill shard adjustment and a little bug with Torture ignoring shields and buffs sometime. Clearly there's a problem with Torture in this guy, because Angel of Strife also has Torture but does not do as many damage as Red Bat. Also the procs on his torture seen way higher than on Green Bat.

Lowering the damage per HP scaling or reducing his HP is a good way IMO to start.

Another of my maxed characters... Must have been doomed or something 😕
Have to admit that he punch a bit hard... Fully sharded ones can kill a maxed mummy in nearly one hit! Maybe just making torture physical DMG defense would protect a bit & give sense to power move def drop...

Yes, this char is so OP, basic attack must be modified. No reason that he almost can one shot every char in game. Maybe it is good idea to change his attack to physical.

I have one fully sharded and he's a beast. I love using him. Is he overpowered? Absolutely. I think it's great you're having dialogues about this guy, but even with the bias of owning him I'd be lying if I didn't admit I laugh every time he one-hits a Mummy after getting the attack boost from the Hellhound.

Yes the AoF is OP , and may not be fair in pvp. I'm not in pvp yet so I don't know how big of a problem he is. Here's the big problem with the nerfs . If every character is equal then there's no reason to spend money to get rare characters! The reason I spend money on the game is to get the 5star super guys. I have 3 PDKs trying to get a blue general. And now that he's not as powerful why spend the money to get him ? I'm afraid to spend my skill shards because of this reason, If i put 10 skill shards on AoF and then he gets NERFED I'll be super pissed. Who ever the best character in the game is we'll figure it out and we'll all over use that guy. The blue soldier is a example of that , lots of people sharded him and made him king, now he's no ones king . What a waste of shards. Some rare characters should be op , there's no adds ( thank you ) so yea pay to play I'm fine with that and some of us hardcore players and the ones that spend the money should have better teams. They've earned it. A AoF should be way more powerful then a ox cultists! I know your going to nerf him but go easy on him maybe just nerf a little and see how it goes. Also the prisoner says his passive doesn't work on bosses why not just add doesn't work in pvp.

This reply is not just for this, but for all the "let's nerf this" threads. Nerf is always a bad solution. Skill shards do not Fall from trees and cannot be removed from a certain carachter so nerfing a caracther is not fair for those who invested resources and shards on them.
Instead, introduce talismans and carachters that can overcome their ability if you want to keep the game interesting.

When I see AoF I like the ultra common blue Allied Soldier shield. Returns the favor if you will.

Doesn't he share same skill as Green Bat? Seeing more of them lately.

In general, Dev team, glad you are raising this for discussion. Please address the skill shard "reset" capability and the broken mechanics before nerfing anyone.

Thanks for listening.

What about party cost ? It was only a thing when I was very low level and I couldn't field the team I wanted because the characters were to powerful for me. What if you keep the op guys op and just raise the cost of em . No more complaints about NERFING, also maybe there'll be some strategy to bring in a meathead . All off a sudden a hourglass might be a playable toon . People would complain they can't bring 4 super guys, but I think it's better then nerf. Or removable skill shards, I've been pushing for that for awhile now. And what about future characters? If there all average stats and no super guys no ones going to buy em. Also with the new sale your basically play 45$ for 3 skill shards, I know you get more then just that but that's the main selling point. If people pay that much and there shared toon gets nerfed there going to rage quit! No paying customers no game and that can't happen. Anyway my point is party cost , what do you think? Right now yellow and blue bat cost 16 and red bat is 14. Weird. So Eddie can stay the same because there all 16. Then 2 op toons and one weak one that might compliment the others or maybe you would use a maxed 4star toon . 4 star would be weaker but maybe you like his power or passive. Or 3 solid toons. So yea party cost 💀

He is vastly strong for sure. Not got one but would like one for sure! His single hit is the most OP part I think but his power move is pretty good too....the passive though is a great one and I think needs to stay as it makes him worthwhile. Maybe lower his single hit power.

Reading this after buying the two Winter Warmer packs to skill him up makes me slightly sick...

If you keep in nerfing we will have this issue with so many characters... just my two cents...

You cant have this passive to the greatest single damager in the game. If its gonna be kept, remove the crazy HP scaling and lower damage overall.
Actually...even removing the passive overall wouldn't counter his 45k hits nerfing-wise.

Sure. Keep nerfing characters that we work so darn hard and spend so much time developing. That really makes me want to keep playing this bug-ridden game.

I spent a lot of time and effort to develop him. You know how hard it is to get skill shards when half your roster of troopers has quit playing the game because the gameplay sucks and the bugs are too much for them AND because of those bugs you can't delete inactives?

yeah i think some changes in the damage output would be reasonable. he is my most loved toon of all times, but well he hits too hard in combination with the extra turn for the whole party. changing the damage to pysical could be a good first step. otah we have to be carefull, not to ruin the toons totaly, but i think you guys made some reasonable nerfs so far, so if you slightly adjust AOF it would be okay IMO.

I like the party cost idea too, would spice up the game, since the non top 10 chars would get a chance to shine :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slauki

... he hits too hard in combination with the extra turn for the whole party...

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Maybe just consider tweaking the HP scaling as that would force talisman builds to choose between damage output and HP...

I was going to dump some skill shards on mine the other night - glad I didn't do it now!!

Maybe damage based on hp scalling can be change for ATK scalling for this character because high damage + extra turn + very high hp is too much ...
I like this character (i have 1 level 100, maxed talismants, and 3 other waiting for sacrifice) but i understand he needs some adjustements...

I'd say nerf the HP scaling, you should still be able to build him for damage, but it should cost you survivability. I think it's a fair trade.

I think adjusting the HP scaling is appropriate. But while removing damage scaling with his own HP, I'd leave (or only slightly modify) the scaling with his opponent's HP. That way it's harder to build him as both tank & damage, but he retains some of his "boss killer" status.

OR, crazy (not necessarily good) idea:
thinking about his buggy passive, it's be interesting if it only triggered when a teammate got the first kill (but not him) - sort of the opposite of the warrior/assassin CotD passive. That would also neuter his impact a bit, and make you use him much more strategically. But with how buggy it currently is I wouldn't really want to try this.

I don't think a nerf is necessary for this character, but, since I do think it's inevitable, I would say limiting his passive to a 35% (ish) chance of giving his party an extra turn might be the best option. I think his damage is fine as is, personally (and no, I don't have one).

I do not have an AoF and I think his damage output from a single attack is fine. Sure, he hits like a ton of bricks, but there’s always going to be a “strongest” character. If its not this one, it will be another one…

What I do think is ridiculous about this character is the pairing of his single attack damage output with his passive skill! If you are in PVP, the likelihood of which side wins is strongly influenced by which side goes first. Throw an AoF on the team that goes first and that team may go 2 (or 3) rounds before the opposing team gets to respond….if the opposing team is still standing, which is very unlikely.

My recommendation is to tweak that passive somehow so that he’s not so overpowering in PVP. I’m not sure I have a great suggestion on how to do that other than to point out this rub for many players. Sure, I guess the Prisoner is the antidote to the AoF’s passive, but many don’t have a Prisoner.

I've recently noticed that blocking beneficial effects prevents AoF's passive from giving the blocked targets an extra turn. Not sure if this is a bug or intended, but if it is intended I'd say his passive is very much balanced.

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Originally Posted by iPoop

Sure, I guess the Prisoner is the antidote to the AoF’s passive, but many don’t have a Prisoner.

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I'm not making any larger point here, but the Prisoner isn't really a counter to the AoF's passive, since it's pretty easy to take out the prisoner first, and as soon as he dies you get your extra turn for killing him (assuming no one died on your team).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iPoop

Sure, I guess the Prisoner is the antidote to the AoF’s passive, but many don’t have a Prisoner.

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I pick my Troll before my prisoner when I face one, preventing that second turn in first place give time to take AoF down before it can even use it..

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Originally Posted by Arcturus

The Prisoner isn't really a counter to the AoF's passive, since it's pretty easy to take out the prisoner first, and as soon as he dies you get your extra turn for killing him (assuming no one died on your team).

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Would even say that the AoF is an excellent counter to the prisoner by himself, quick kill & all passives back instantly with a 2nd turn, that's my main reason to bring him everytime I face a prisoner team...

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Originally Posted by Sag7272

I pick my Troll before my prisoner when I face one, preventing that second turn in first place give time to take AoF down before it can even use it..



Would even say that the AoF is an excellent counter to the prisoner by himself, quick kill & all passives back instantly with a 2nd turn, that's my main reason to bring him everytime I face a prisoner team...

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Both great points. AoF is a staple on my attack team, and defenses with a red troll are usually the only ones I can't get the extra turn on the first round if I go first.

My only problem with the Prisoner are the team set ups that take advantage of all the bugs causing freeze to trigger disproportionately so the attacking team never gets a turn. I suspect he'll be tough, but fair, once those freeze proc issues are taken care of.

I fully agree that AoF as well as AoS are very strong characters.
I believe if they are proposing all these changes they must have tested or are testing each one of them.
The one that I like the most is the fact of changing the type of damage to physical, I believe that with just this change it is already more balanced.

Might as well go ahead and change his name as well since there will be nothing to fear after the nerf. In PvP I fear them when I see my opponent is going 1st which is 70% of the time. I also fear using mine because he is always the first to fall. High Risk / High Reward, I think it should be left as is.

We have all learned that targeted creature must die in order for passive to work, though it's not described in that way, but there is still a problem in your coding.

Don't know when that coding for passive checks after each hit if target has died, but it's mixed up in order with endure. Creature with endure doesn't die, but AoF's pasive will still proc. So put two more lines in the passive coding that will first check if endure is on.

Neverminding the AoF, the same mixed up code order you have with those defeat swords poping up in the arena. I've seen last defending creture standing and taking it's turn low on hp, probably on 1, when swords poped up

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HomemLivre

I fully agree that AoF as well as AoS are very strong characters.
I believe if they are proposing all these changes they must have tested or are testing each one of them.
The one that I like the most is the fact of changing the type of damage to physical, I believe that with just this change it is already more balanced.

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Boy you're gullible.

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Originally Posted by Caretaker

We have all learned that targeted creature must die in order for passive to work, though it's not described in that way, but there is still a problem in your coding.

Don't know when that coding for passive checks after each hit if target has died, but it's mixed up in order with endure. Creature with endure doesn't die, but AoF's pasive will still proc. So put two more lines in the passive coding that will first check if endure is on.

Neverminding the AoF, the same mixed up code order you have with those defeat swords poping up in the arena. I've seen last defending creture standing and taking it's turn low on hp, probably on 1, when swords poped up

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Bump, whats the status on that passive?

And nothing's fixed. We can allways say and write down it overrides endure hahahaha

One potential idea is that the angel has to be the killer for his passive to prock. Right now it doesnt matter who makes the kill so the angel could even miss its target but teammates can still activate the passive. If only he can trigger it then he will be far less usable on defense but still strong on attacking teams which gives him his nitch. No character should be all powerful but should have its nitch where it excells.

The description of his passive does say that the team gets an extra turn if they get the first kill. However, it seems like it triggers even if the opposing team gets the first kill of the battle. Just fixing this would make the passive a little less powerful, at least for defending teams as the attacking team then can focus on getting the first kill in.