We should just call it win the toss or force quit!
I don't see how any team could possibly recover and win if they go second against that D
Well played sir!
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We should just call it win the toss or force quit!
I don't see how any team could possibly recover and win if they go second against that D
Well played sir!
Thanks EZZ! There's a few ways the cards can fall and they don't always mean instant death - but certainly this is the best Hold percentage I've had in a while going into Friday.
Have to say though it pales in comparison to a beta defense I had. Talismans were broken and a Gunner Golden Son would freeze every opponent - with perfect hits guaranteed by a DM - and steal fury, instantly filling the fury meter of Tailgunner Eddie ( a Gimp made Trolls and Hellhounds ineffective). It was then lights out.
My Hold percentage in its best week was 60% :p
...........
I agree. It sucks;)Quote:
Originally Posted by angelkelly
i really do appreciate nickos teams from time to time, because they clearly show how broken some chars and mechanics are. otherwise many would still try to tell the story how "strong" specific characters are. they are not strong, they are completly out of line. same for explosives, stunning for one turn could be perfectly fine but making a singlehitter into a potential 2 tuns aoe stun machine (even harpies will get stunned) is absolutely ridiculous.
edit:
btw: that we can almost compare nicos defense nowadays with the broken beta defense says a lot too ;)
Thanks Angel Kelly - you always charm with your posts :)Quote:
Originally Posted by angelkelly
Hey Slauki - you know my Hold percentage - and it doesn't come close to those 60% Beta days ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
And while I see the arguments as far as some of the talisman mechanics - most are getting fixed - and I wouldn't be surprised if it leads to some griping. Players are complaining their Holds are falling - and once these Talisman adjustments occur they'll likely fall even more. AI simply can't compete with a human, so these little "broken" mechanics give the AI a glimmer of hope. Will players be ok with 12% Hold rates?
I think if the AI had 90% perfect hits we could do away with some of this stuff and still see decent Hold rates. The ability to check off whether to use power moves or not would also be really valuable. Who goes first will always be huge - but some easy tweaks like perfect hits and selectable power moves would allow reasonable Holds without having to rely on what you call "broken" mechanics.
isn't the issue though that if your defence goes second (like it just did against me) then it's instant death for your double Wrath :-( Which means that your hold percentage equals your coin toss success percentage ;-) so will be interested in seeing how much of these coin tosses you win ;-)
you know i love needeling a bit :D it's not so broken like in early days for sure, but it's still kinda broken . pretty simple rule of common sense "if you cannot counter it, with all available tools it's broken".Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
i never think it's the fault of the player if the system is wrong so it's a really smart setup which i like too. would i use a similar defense if i was able? hell yeah i would :D .
all in all i don't expect too much of a difference after the BNW update aside the energy and the void shields. not sure if the explosives are on the radar of the devs, so i could imagine this team will still be very good for a long time. and it's really screwed, that such crucial talismans are only available for a few guys, at least this will come to an end soon.
but now i predict this following circle:
this setup will become more popular --> we will se more 2 wrath combos with similar setups --> it will kill the divesity of pvp and devide the players into "haves and not haves" and the complains will rise --->it might take some weeks or some months till devs realize this and then --> the inevitable nerf will come :P
hope they will find a better way, but i would place a 10$ bet on this :D i like he 90% perfect hit idea and the selectable powermove idea too, but this might take a while, i'm afraid...
Disagree ;). I've faced a couple 2-Wrath defenses; they often aren't difficult. I had to try many combinations this week before this current configuration - SSD, Clairvoyant, Nomad, Shaman Eddie, VHE...Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
All of them were better than my last weeks dismal Hold percentage - which was below 20% - but it took the DM to give it some consistency (just as it did in my beta defense) - I don't think the difference maker is the second Wrath. When the energy talismans get adjusted I don't think you'll see 2 Wrath defenses unless combined with TWO toons who can feed him power (AG? Cyborg?) - and even then you're depending on the cards to fall in a very particular way.
My win rate this week so far is 98% - if we all had that then by definition defensive Hold rates would be 2%. I haven't faced Kamuz once - because the cards so often fall the same way when I face him - Wrath goes first - steals energy and removes buffs - Nomad power move - no energy to heal and facing a Beelze with Strikes. I faced him two times last Saturday and when the cards DIDN'T fall that way it was a fairly straightforward win. When these Talismans get adjusted I won't sweat facing him at all. I would imagine right now his Hold percentage is better than mine - it's mechanics are no different but it can win going second (mine doesn't have a prayer if it doesn't go first).
Our win rates will rise. Hold rates will fall. And people will gripe about not being able to Hold...
And to support my theory Slauki - I've see more DMs today than ever before...
Glass cannon but if starts first it's just killing it! I had a few wins against it before but today it got me twice :p
Good thinking, Nicko! I tried with 3 Wrath team and didn't like it and now I'm pissed that I sacrificed the 2 extra Wraths I had, not too long ago. I never thought of using the Marauder for this.
Well you modeled it close enough cause yours just got me! I went second and two of my guys were down from Explosives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradata
I'll keep telling you guys - it's not the second Wrath... ;)
I managed to win one battle yesterday even going second, but had 3 losses before that one, always when one wrath goes first stealing energy the other one goes second with power move then either DM or navigator finishing my team without power to heal or revive.
If energy talismans weren't broken, it would be another history, I think it only happens because of that and i don't know why devs made an update some days ago and didn't include a fix for that.
I'll tell you one thing guys, if anyone has a nose to smell the broken talismans and the toons to put them on it's Nicko. I've been playing PVP when it was still beta and he would always be the first to come up with some new and creative defense... and then we all follow in his footsteps ;)
My defense rate just went up 2% since I put the Marauder there.
it's a combination of wraths and explosives and energy for sure, as i stated before. explosives are equally crucial in the system so as stealing energy. we won't see 2 wrath defenses a lot because most doesn't have 2 wraths. but i can name you 4-5 guys who already copied part of the defense. and it will get more very week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
so part 1 of my prediction become reality much faster than i anticipated:D
that's definetly true man, seems like a secret talent... nicko is one of the smartest players out there his defenses were always extremly solid. will never forget the legendary tailgunner, gunner golden son, desert marauder, prisoner defense. legendary as fuck :D and yeah everyone followed after some days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradata
That was the best defense this game has ever known and probably ever will. It was so broken that Nicko even stopped using it in respect to other players. (don't actually think he should, it was not his fault, but that goes to show his character).Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
Yeah, good memories :)
But did not lose to Nicko yet... Others I have, eight times so far. Best one? Buttons gone missing of course, four times, impressive! (Devs, could you look into this?).
Glad I'm enjoying Shaolin x Carlos battle from the sidelines. Hope Kamuz, Nicko and others will join.
***gmac grabs popcorn***
Gmac- were u able to beat Nicko's defense going second?Quote:
Originally Posted by gmac
I'd love to hear from you or anyone else who has. Out of respect please do not disclose the team used if u have, I am just more interested to hear if it's possible!
Yes, I think I battle him 4 times, and I went second on 2 ocasions. Definitely possible :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezz
I'm just amazed at how many perfect hits your AI gets lol. Of course, they give the perfects to your Wrath Nicko. Curses.
Cheers. Eskiggalu
And now the servers are down, Nicko's defense broke them! :rolleyes:
I know for a fact it's possible - a friend messaged me. I've done it in my testing too. Lots of variables - sometimes Nav goes first - sometimes DM uses power instead of Wrath -Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezz
Sometimes explosives don't trigger at all - sometimes Wrath doesn't remove enough buffs - etc
R1ck also mentioned in this thread he beat it once going second...
yeah it'S possible but it's tough and requires normal rng. and no way you can do this 100%, even 80%+ would be quite impressive but maybe doable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezz
i think there is no way to beat it going 2nd AND being somewhat unlucky...but maybe someone has figured out something better, so that's at least my experience so far.
I remember doing lots of testing on that and when it finally came together my eyes about popped out of my head! Yes - that was truly crazy - because it was truly broken!Quote:
Originally Posted by gmac
Yup - GMAC of course tells the truth - every time I see his name it's not a Hold. And also the gentleman he didn't post his secrets - but that's part of the fun of a defense like this - figuring out how it works and then breaking it...
And this weeks race is all Carlos and Shaolin unless someone else jumps on board - I'm joining GMAC with the popcorn - and from the looks of things - Shaolin won't stop until he breaks 10,000...
I'm either REALLY lucky - or one of the toons on the team is helping with that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte47
true but after that he invented the mummy/ssd/prisoner combo the next big broken one :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gmac
LMAO :D you luckbox...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
I'm 3-0 against it so far, sure it's not going to stay that way. Went 1st once and went 2nd the other two times. If you can win against this one I don't think you will have to worry much about the copycats because it's most likely they don't have the skill shards for both of them. Damn Nicko, How do you stay close to 20% hold rate? I haven't been above 16% since tauntfest. Every thing that presents a challenge gets nerfed into oblivion. I wouldn't even care about hold rates if they would just fix this dumbass points system to where it actually makes since to clear a list again. There is no point in taking a battle that gives 12 points, then lose 13 ... until Saturday
Oh! I remember the good old days, with endless revenges we were battling back & forth literraly all week long :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
Those are still my favorite memories from this game - endless revenges with you and Pizza Friday :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sag7272
You are not alone..Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
It was the far west back then!
Yep, got the popcorn too, not going there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
Quite a defense you have there Nicko.
Actually it got me going on sort of an achievement challenge: 'Beat Nicko's defense without using any explosive talisman and after losing the coin toss, no Prisoner allowed'. (not that I have a Prisoner anyway).
NF Should give players a skill shard for completing that one, come to think of it, it would be rather nice if @NF was able to implement 'dynamic challenges' or at least 'surprise challenges'.
1) Was hoping you'd be joining Carlos and Kamuz in the race tomorrowQuote:
Originally Posted by Blacksteel
2) Prisoner won't help - much ;). DM has immunity
That would be great, but I might not be able to put in enough hours this morning, so good luck!.
BTW, I see you on the list now, let's see if we can complete that achievement.
Lol. You got a bot in there Nicko? (Also, totally kidding). Just lost three coin tosses in a row. I am not above spending all my SOW to beat you sir😂
Edit: 4 in a row. I'm going back in lol
Edit 2: LU KANG WINS!
Lol, you are unbeatable without the coin toss win. Kudos.
Finally some challenge nicko it feels good when I see your team go down when I go second good shit man I encourage everyone who has two Wraths and a DM to try his team so far very entertaining
You're right - i will go running to the developers - asking them to please implement an "Ignore" feature in this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by angelkelly
To shed a little light on our pal good ol' Angel - I sent him the following pm the other day after he removed one of his typical grade-school insult posts, which had also asked me what my Hold percentage was:
Hey - I hate when forum posts devolve into back-and-forth insult sessions and i simply won't participate. It's why I ignored your post.
With that being said - I thought it was really big of you to delete your last post in that thread - so happy to tell you my hold percentage - right now it's xx%.
I'd appreciate you not broadcasting it - a little mystery goes a long way
No response of course - and then he posts this little rant.
Do you even know how this defense works? Do you realize the inspiration came from other players like Kamuz and GMAC who are simply putting energy talismans on non-green characters? I got burned by Kamuz about 5 times in one week and GMAC a few times as well. All I did is take the idea and run with it. And the Invisibles didn't affect me at all - I was always above them - they affected other players - including some of my friends - so yes, I complained.
So go ahead- "Report my defense" ;) And go rant and rave and put other players including myself down. Your character shines through loud and clear my friend...
I'm not seeing the bug. I lost because of coin toss and Talisman. His set up was better than mine to recover with. I beat him in almost one turn when I won the coin toss. He just has a ridiculously good set up. It's one player. Why not just skip him in your list? It's not really something to be up in arms over tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by angelkelly
Hey Trooper - you were the inspiration ;). Glad you had fun but have to say - after all the times you've burned me those Holds today were sweet ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamuz24z
I think I was getting way to much credit in this defense thread - guys like you, GMAC, Bradata, and many others have had some pretty sweet defenses.
And I'll go on record and say people ARE beating this defense going second. I've even gotten some pms about it which I always appreciate. Most liked the challenge.
With the upcoming Talisman adjustment things will change - but that's always been the nature of this game :)
I was watching - and I was hoping you would pull one off! Congrats!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte47
Was thinking with a bunch of beneficial effects stealers would be totally doable, but I was set on winning with my normal offense. You know, cuz I like wasting ironite😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko