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  1. #21
    Senior Member rags-6094's Avatar
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    Define enjoyable? For some a good tough battle is enjoyable, you get a really good idea of what the creator of the defence team had in mind when you battle them, for others enjoyable is not losing a battle,for others it's got to be a win and over in a minute anything longer is a waste of their time.
    I've seen a lot of the original champs write similar things in the forums "arena is not enjoyable any more, I'd rather play Gauntlet etc, certainly this week alone I am amazed by the number of new names Im seeing at the higher end of arena, and a little disappointed there aren't a few more originals still showing how it's done, each to his own I guess.
    Out of the universe, a strange light is born
    Unholy union, trinity reformed....

  2. #22
    Senior Member DanielRacy's Avatar
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    He is probably talking about the armies of Hallowed, M Lilith, Prisoner, Alchemist or the armies of Hallowed, M Lilith, Alchemist, W Goddess ( I always forget her name) and little variations with Osiris and Horus.

    It gets old really fast if you have to fight the the same formation 300 times, with few variations here and there. I get it.
    Daniel-3568

  3. #23
    Senior Member rags-6094's Avatar
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    Yeah me too.... there's so many places to spend your time in LOTB these days, it's hard to choose where to spend it.
    This current event is a great way to farm much needed shards for levelling up which I was left rather depleated after the recent Halloween sac event.
    I would rather be in the arena or gauntlet myself but ironite is low and doing this I can trade in all the normal souls for sow and complete some challenges in one foul swoop!
    Out of the universe, a strange light is born
    Unholy union, trinity reformed....

  4. #24
    Senior Member Stormseye's Avatar
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    Seems the defense lines are even less distinguished now.

    80-90% of the fights now are the exact same build. Not sure if this is to take advantage of the bug that allows for multiple specials on the AI turn or what. That is not a shot at the player base. I see people constantly posting about "originality". That's great, if you want to play the game with Pharaoh Eddie and 3 Sandworms in the Arena and it makes you happy then enjoy. This thread is about competing in the top end and what you can expect when you do. So with that said here is your most current update.

    Standard Defense:-

    Magus Lillith
    Sekhmet
    Hallowed
    Alchemist

    What I have been having issues with is the constant AI accuracy buff (that doesn't exist). This allows for the Echo Sekhmet, Any Ability from HE that has a 15% chance to extra turn and Magus Lilith's insane high chance to extra turn AND always refunds the power when using Mysterious Rain. The constant "turn taking" from the Accuracy Boost balloons the Fury meter and allows for Sekhmet to Fury on the first turn and push the whole cycle again ending with Alchemist or HE using a second Fury. These combined allies/Eddie create a spectacularly perfect synergy. This is why I can't blame a single person for using this defense. It works wonderfully well. Despite the influx of new allies in the last month there has been very little change in the current Arena in terms of teams. The main reason for this is the synergy that was created when these allies were updated. You can easily blame the lack of drops for the new allies not showing up in the arena but there are many who do have them and I have seen very little change since the HE/Alchemist update. The new allies released and the builds that contain them are few and far between. They just cant compete with this common defense build.

    Please address the AI Boost in terms of tuning. We all know it exists. Whether NF acknowledges it or not is irrelevant, at the very least, adjust it or give the attacking team the same boost.
    ...When all you see can only bring you sadness...

    ...no Brave New World...no Brave New World...

    The LAST player in the top end to get Primordials (TM)

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  5. #25
    Senior Member T-Man's Avatar
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    Oh joy! I’ve got 21 battles in the arena this week. Lowest ever. Lol

    I faced that exact team in gauntlet a few battle ago as well. Such a cheese team. I hate seeing it. I did get the win. \m/
    Last edited by T-Man; 11-09-2018 at 10:30 PM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Yup's Avatar
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    Hallowed Ed is overpowered where extra turns are concerned. The same way Gunner Lilith is overpowered where the "gold buff true damage" is concerned.

    For the record, If you have Gunner fury relics and Hallowed and + 1 more gunner, you can build fury practically every turn. If Hallowed Ed gets multiple turns then definitely. The gunner fury relic once you get to a certain level 7/8 is the change. Not sure if it's a "bug" though.
    Last edited by Yup; 11-09-2018 at 11:20 PM.
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    insert witty remark here.

  7. #27
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    Thanks for the analysis, Stromseye! Completely correctly described.
    Let me add a few more thoughts, with the exception of trying to be relatively positive:

    The Defense Boost
    Everyone knows there is. When things go really bad, the AI only makes perfect hits and triggers all the effects. In some cases, even the order doesn't matter, which is usually the biggest weakness of the AI. This weakness doesn't justify the clearly noticeable boost, but partly explains its existence. Some matches simply can't be won. Some teams may even have to be avoided. I can get really upset about it, but it doesn't help. After all, you can also make a task out of it, how best to incorporate this into your own defense and how best to counter it by attacking. After all: Many (me too) don't use the same team in the attack - at least a little bit of variety.

    Builds come and go
    We've all seen it before. The mechanics change from time to time. Essentially, NF determines the speed by (examples):
    - New characters (Eternals, Valkyries, Liliths, Gods)
    - New Talismans (Immunity, Thorn (lol), Angle, Destiny, Eternity, Primordial, Valor, Redemption, Avenger)
    - Tuning as deterioration / improvement (Vampire Hunter, Assassin Valkyre, Wrath, Gunner Corrupt Rescuer / Rainmaker, Cyborg, Hallowed, Alchemist)

    Positive about the current build:
    At the moment the tuning of Hallowed and the Alchemist is clearly dominant. It's actually good that for once it's not the newest characters and talismans you need for PvP. Almost all the ingredients for the current "best" build were only available recently. That means almost every player can participate in the current "best" build (admittedly almost ridiculous...relics make it completely crazy). This will stay that way for some time now, and then comes the next one. I had already wondered that the last tuning had no downgrades for e.g. Hallowed.

    And now?
    To be honest, I also found it a bit more exciting when I missed a lot of the characters and I had to incorporate this into my strategy as well. When the talisman effects weren't that crazy yet and it was more about the right combination of characters and "normal" talismans. This is no longer the case for many. Until a few months ago I used a lot of different attack teams, always adapted to the respective defense. With the current mechanics this is no longer necessary. Extremely coordinated characters and talismans didn't lead to much variety. It will be interesting to see what happens next. Sometimes I think that it has become very extreme with all the abilities, buffs and debuffs, talismans and also very violent: relics. With all these things NF was really very busy if you are honest. But how long can you reinvent the wheel? In the current frequency of changes it can't really go any further, can it? I probably wouldn't mind if the frequency became slower. That might also be helpful, because the balance in the game is always in great danger, which doesn't get any easier with such a huge number of influencing variables.

    So despite all justified criticism we still have a rather complex game, which even leads to long posts and a lot of discussion. I try not to take the whole thing so seriously anymore, then it's a bit more about the fun again. At least I try... Have fun people!
    March 1st 2019 Update - NEVER FORGET!

    Blade-4052 // The Mofo Cult

    Missing:
    Eddies: $-Tour-$, Thor / - / Ramess, $-Ed Hunter-$, $-Fawk-$ / Gangland, Angel, $-Lone*-$, Fallen Icarus / Eagles, Oni, Eternal Champion
    Allies: Shard, Onyx, WickerWolf, Lucifer, Prince Beelze / Shard, LoL, Onyx, WickerOwl, Dark Clair / Elf, $-Sirius-$, Mino, Onyx, LoL, WickerOx / Wdeer, Mino, Shard, Wwolf, LoL, Gunnr / Nutcracker, LoL, Dark Lilith, Shard, Prince Wrath / cLol, Mitsuko

  8. #28
    Senior Member Stormseye's Avatar
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    The new expansion has been released and with it new character tuning. After completely the new content, I ventured back into the Arena to see how the new changes looked. I am pleased to report that the Hallowed Eddie and Magus Lillith tunings are quite noticeable. Magus Lillith is longer swinging 5 times to boost the Fury meter for Sekhmet to use Damnation and start the rotation again. Hallowed Eddie is no longer going 3 times every turn. The Alchemist changes are so slight they are non-issue. Overall this build will still be viable for winning on the attack side but it is nowhere near the defensive overpowered brick wall it was. A welcome change for returning players and newer players that had been stifled by this build. Those who had been accustomed to 40% hold rating will see a drop this week.


    The update also brought with it a slew of new allies which will hopefully make their way into the Arena and create more diversity within the builds and allow for more players to achieve higher rankings. Though there were many listed changes, my short experience showed that the AI defense in general had been tuned down as well. What was common practice by the AI in terms of ability usage has changed and is no longer so glaring that many players felt certain fights where destined to be lost.

    While it can just as boring losing matches to the same teams, it can be equally boring winning every match from a dull AI. These recent changes seem to be exactly where they were needed. We still have weeks to make a better interpretation of these new changes but what I have seen so far is a step in the right direction.
    Last edited by Stormseye; 12-05-2018 at 08:31 PM.
    ...When all you see can only bring you sadness...

    ...no Brave New World...no Brave New World...

    The LAST player in the top end to get Primordials (TM)

    stormseye-8121

  9. #29
    Senior Member Cefiar's Avatar
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    My biggest thing with Arena is the amount of time I have to sink into it over more than a week to get anywhere.

    And this time of year I'm especially time poor.
    Cef-6313
    "To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem" - Douglas Adams

  10. #30
    Senior Member Stormseye's Avatar
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    Time is definitely a big factor in playing for the top end. Last week I hit 500 wins and came in 10th. Let's say the average match lasts 3 minutes so that's roughly 1500 minutes or around 25 Hours per week. That does not include the losses as well. Most non event weeks I average around 300-400 wins. So non event weeks still require a heavy dose of time to stay in the top. Think about guys like Carlos and Kumuz who clocked in over 2000 wins. Their average time was probably faster than mine but who knows.
    ...When all you see can only bring you sadness...

    ...no Brave New World...no Brave New World...

    The LAST player in the top end to get Primordials (TM)

    stormseye-8121

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