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  1. #61
    Senior Member Stormseye's Avatar
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    The reign is over...

    There have been many changes in the last few months and the most notable is the long awaited quenching of the Disable Passive ability. Too long has the Prisoner and more recently Gambler/Vipers/NoTB been able to easily unseat blockers with this ability. The introduction (and quick fix) of Singularity talismans finally put the these powerhouse teams into a more manageable format. Though the Gambler/Killer Prime combo is still dominant in the Arena, it is by no means the ultimate copy cat team anymore. More and more allies and Eddies are appearing in teams that could not be viable before the Singularity talismans. Some may feel that there has been too many new talisman sets released recently but I would argue that these talismans, more than the release of new characters has allowed for more diversity in the Arena and that to me this is a good direction.


    Crave is the new King...


    We have also seen in the last few months an increase in the number of passive healing allies and talismans which has lengthened the amount of time it takes to complete a battle and has created new challenges to be considered when building your team. Many teams often rely on heavy hitters to "one shot" opponent teams all the while healing themselves in the process and repeating attacks via Warlord talismans or other means. While these teams can dish out huge damage they always lack a few basic protections. The balance of a group is precarious in that if you rely strictly on damage via Killer Prime/Gambler you end up lacking in protection with Immunity and Cleanse. On the other hand if your team is built to withstand all this damage you tend to not be able to do enough damage to offset the intense healing from your opponents' passives. Enter Crave. This negative effect has been in the shadows mostly and only with the appearance of the Major Malakhov has it been making a resurgence. I rediscovered it after facing Necroflip and his Gunner Krampus. I was not paying attention and healed my party with Alchemist and ended up killing my Set due to the Crave. At the time Krampus was not available so I noted that it would be something I could consider trying to implement into a build. Within a week the new event was released and low and behold Krampus was available. I purchased him and began building a team.


    As stated, balancing a team is involved and a constant give and take, power for protection. While looking at the top teams I noticed that many of them had displaced their healing/cleaning Alchemy talismans for the new Singularity set. This leaves those teams open to negative effects once again. Going back to basic game abilities like Stun/Freeze would allow a lock of those heavy hitters and prevent my team from being destroyed in one round. Krampus is perfect for this roll as his basic attack Freezes, can Crave and Curses enemies and he has a chance for extra turns to boot. This makes him quite devastating against these teams with no cleanse or constant immunity. Every opponent team is different in some slight way so you must change tactics per battle but the below two teams I present have enabled me to overcome every current top team out there. The first team was my primary attack team and is now the team I use against Ferryman builds since my Crave team is unable to deal with his unique passive (yet).


    Virus Eddie - Radiant/Warlord - Radiant Talismans work well here for keeping those big damage dealers from gaining offensive effects while Warlord helps power up Virus as your power hitter. His passive was key to dealing with blockers prior to the shift from Alchemy to Singularity. The primary abilities I use are System Failure for stuns across the board and Infect. Infect is great in that is can inflict Fear which can also become Doom. If the opponent has no way to cleanse Doom then they are done for. Initially he was equipped with Primordial but I felt his damage was lacking so I changed them.

    Alchemist - Angel/Venom - This is your main cleanser and secondary damage dealer. Angels keep him from being stunned and Venom helps add some extra negative effects to your opponent, most notable is Crave.

    The Madam - Singularity - Designed to protect your blocker from Passive Disable she also is quite useful at removing beneficial effects and sleeping opponents who cannot cleanse. A bonus of Singularity is their ability to steal all beneficial effects of a single enemy every turn. This has sometimes caused her to hit for 40k and in some instances it has caused her to get Ghost and die horribly but it is most likely a bug.

    Set - Labyrinth - My favorite blocker since his release, the Labyrinth talismans seem tailor made for him. Grand Deception is so useful with it's Trap effect locking up Viper Charlottes and his extra turn ability makes him the best blocker in the game right now. A cosmic talisman with Invisibility or one with a Burn effect would make him complete for me.


    Crave Team

    Pharaoh Ramesses - Mark/Sustaining/Cosmic - Pharaoh is great for his passive and his team survivability is amazing. I had some success with him earlier this year but in the current Arena his is really shining. His talismans can easily be changed as I have tried Redemption, Eternity and a few other setups with success. The main ability I use is Sun God which inflicts Crave and can have extra turns. Wedjet's Gaze is also great for removing Golden Effects. His passive prevents permadeath so Ankh of Life has saved my team and allowed me a victory on multiple times. The Mark talismans really help in dealing damage to protected enemies. Often times the Mark tends to be the killer of the attack.

    Gunner Krampus - Alchemy/Cosmic - There may be overlap in cleansing and room for alternate talismans but I like the extra protection and his main task is really the setup man. Thresh completely stops enemies from taking any action on their turn and even Trooper Talisman Charlottes get Frozen before their Perfect Immunity lands. Multiple attacks allow you to pick and choose who you want to hit and helps control the battle. Once frozen you are free to hammer them with Ramesses Sun God ability. Once Crave is on the opponent all those heals from passives and Charlotte just amount to damage. So many enemy kills by their own healing hands.

    Set/Madam - Both run the same setup as above and for the same reason.


    Hope this helps you guys look for new opportunities and ways to beat those tough top teams. See you on the battlefield.
    Last edited by Stormseye; 07-15-2019 at 04:47 PM.
    ...When all you see can only bring you sadness...

    ...no Brave New World...no Brave New World...

    The LAST player in the top end to get Primordials (TM)

    stormseye-8121

  2. #62
    Senior Member Fudjo's Avatar
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    Hey, Stormseye!

    I saw that your Ramesses team smacked me around in the Arena, so I started building one of my own. That's a really cool team! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it all!
    Satan81-5023

  3. #63
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    Keep studying the game Stormseye.

  4. #64
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    I love following your posts about the Arena, Stormseye. Just as I read this, I came across your Crave Team in my Attack list and fought the battle just to see it in action. I managed to beat it in a tough battle -- first time I've ever not been trounced by you. And yes, it was all because of Crave (and a bit of Mark for the Labyrinths). Crave is the one skill that has gotten me competitive (somewhat) in Arena, using DDE and M Derby Demon, and it was one of your earlier posts that put me onto it. It really helped that the AI neglected to revive the team when I had it down to Pharaoh Rameses. Anyway, thanks as always for kindling new ways to think about strategy.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Stormseye's Avatar
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    It's been a while since my last update and I feel it may still be a bit premature as we are in the midst of Mega Event and we have yet to see the full arsenal of Lords of Light but let us begin...

    His name struck fear....

    Alexander the Great has once again claimed his title as Master of the Arena. This main reason being due to the Orbit talismans and his ability to ignore all negative effects. The set and passive make for one mean machine in terms of battle control. Not only does his passive protect him from negative effects, he can still give his team Perfect Immunity by way of Onward March and the Orbit set also clears the enemy team of all beneficial blue effects and protects allies from True damage, making NoTb Eddie quite sad. You still find Viper equipped Alexanders but they are few and far between in comparison. I did run across one team with Dominance and Persecution on Alex which made for a longer than expected battle. Nevertheless until they make a change to his passive or Orbit talismans I don't see him being dethroned any time soon. The AI is pretty good at managing power for Devastating Strike to heal at just the right time when there are still enemy allies but when he is alone he will get greedy and use Pain and Glory and that is when you finish him off.

    Popes on a Rope....

    The Hierophants have been supporting the top teams for a few months now and they carry with them quite a punch. The two most commonly used are the Magus and the Gunner.

    The Magus passive prevents enemies from gaining any new beneficial effects after the first turn which makes him really handicap teams that rely on beneficial effects to deal damage. Running with 3 Gunner/3 free slots he is most often found wielding Space, Radiant(possibly redundant?), Angel, Serenity or Persecution sets. Though he can wear Primordials, it is less common. Singularity talismans keep his basic attack to minimal damage but his passive is what causes him to be the first target of my attacks.

    Gunner Hierophants come in two varieties - Viper or Trooper. With yet another powerful passive, he really is a complete package. His passive prevents any enemy healing and grants him Perfect Immunity and Sleep Shield for the duration of the battle. The latter being dismissed by opposing Orbit talismans. His basic attack with 35% chance for extra turns, make him a descent damage dealer and hitting 6 times per attack is no small damage. Stop and Blind will also slow the enemy down, especially those Warlord wearing opponents. The AI will usually use another ally's power before he selects Commune and this is likely due to the 7 power cost. Wearing Trooper talismans is when he really supports a team. Against multi-hitter teams that rely on negative effects you really can't ask for a better defender. Sometimes you can land effects before the perfect Immunity hits and sometimes you can't. It feels like Silver effects are less likely to land compared to red effects. At least it seems like that with Doom. In terms of priority of kill, I usually go for Charlotte over the Gunner but that is how my team works.

    Let there be (Lords of) Light...

    Fresh from the Dungeons this gruesome twosome has made a solid home in 90% of the top teams. Magus and Warrior LoL are the first purchasable in the series and are changing the dynamic in wild ways. As of yet I do not have either so my comments are strictly based on combating them in the Arena and are limited by my ignorance of Awakening them. I believe the other Lords were available via the release event but none have made a proper showing in the Arena to date.

    Magus LoL - At first glance he comes in at a slightly descent multi-hitter and that can ghost himself upon death. Once Awakened (not sure what star level) he can have a high chance of inflicting Dark Ghost (silver version of Ghost) or Doom on all enemies with a 2 turn timer. This leaves many teams with only 2 rounds to win or deal with the effects. I have to tested to see if Dark Ghost can be cleansed by Alchemist or similar allies who can remove silver effects. I am also not sure if Charlotte or Serenity can prevent it. I will begin further testing next week after reset. He can also wear Singularity or Alchemy talismans with his 3 Magus/3 free slots.

    Warrior LoL - What do you get when you cross Viper talismans with a Warrior Lillith and a smidge of Sekhmet? Well you get a powerhouse that is all business and no talk. Of the two dominating lords, he is slightly superior in my opinion. This is due to his ability to wear Orbit or Vipers with 3 Warrior/3 Free slots. Out of the gate he comes with Counter which triggers quite often and his basic attack will decrease your team max HP by 10% every time he swings. On top of that he also has a 35% chance to have an extra turn. Upon Awakening he also can remove Perfect and regular Immunity with each hit. Overall one of the best damage dealers in the top end right now.

    Major Malakhov, Charlotte and Killer Prime are still also found in most of the top teams along with a few Magus Lilliths, Raven Witches and Madams but the latter are still paired up with Gambler Eddie builds from month's past.

    So what can you do about it? Well power does not come at a price and that price is protection. Many of these builds still lack cleanse in one form or another and this leaves them vulnerable to stun and freeze and silver effects. As we used to say in the MMORPs "Dead DPS deal no damage" the same holds true for stunned and frozen allies. Once you have these opponents locked up they can't use all those nasty abilities. You will still run into a blocker/singularity team (mine for instance) but most of these teams using these big allies can deal with them with ease. On the flip side these blocker teams don't have the damage ability to handle many of these hard hitters with their huge arsenal of passives and abilities attached to their basic skills. Despite the number of similar teams throughout the top ranks there are still viable combinations that can overcome them that don't include the exact same builds. Orbit Alex makes this more difficult but then you can also rely on Silver negative effects which Orbit do not clear and with the absence of Alchemist in the top end there are fewer allies that remove silver effects.

    Mark my words...

    Ever the champion of the unsung hero allies, I present to you the Magus Crimean Soldier. Featured during a previous event, this ally is readily available in most souls that can yield a 4* character.
    His basic attack deals 4 hits of random damage to all enemies which helps against Orbits since you have a chance to deal Physical or Magical damage. Next you have 75% chance to inflict 1 mark for 2 turns on each hit and 25% chance to Freeze each enemy. Lastly he has a 25% chance for an extra turn. His passive removes immunity and freezes an enemy every turn and if the opponent has no way to remove negative effects you can use his power move to freeze them permanently if they are already frozen as well as inflict permadeath, perfect silence and smite. His talisman slots of 2 Assassin/1 Sentinel and 3/Free makes him a prime candidate for Greed/Warlord which can turn him into a team killer. I have taken out full teams due to his constant attacks and setting off marks. Mark works really well against Labyrinth wearers. I have been working on a team to utilize his skills but there are still some kinks and I will present it once I have it adjusted.

    As far as my own team I have been able to endure these new allies and changes because my team is mainly designed as a defense team and while slower in most battles I still manage to win against the top teams. Hope this gives some insight into what is going on at the top end and lets some of you find ways to beat these great new teams. I have never been one to bash copy teams because why would you bash something that works? It is the nature of the game and we learn to adapt and conquer. Good luck and see you all in the Arena.
    Last edited by Stormseye; 09-13-2019 at 03:45 AM.
    ...When all you see can only bring you sadness...

    ...no Brave New World...no Brave New World...

    The LAST player in the top end to get Primordials (TM)

    stormseye-8121

  6. #66
    Senior Member Fudjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormseye View Post
    Ever the champion of the unsung hero allies, I present to you the Magus Crimean Soldier.
    Hell yes! The one week I finished on top, I was using Blue Crimean. He is an absolute beat stick. I have Greed + Warlord on mine and it's a fantastic setup. Give this guy a shot.
    Satan81-5023

  7. #67
    Senior Member scott-5496's Avatar
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    Fantastic write up Sir! These are such a great insight into the arena side and importantly into team and ways of using allies that I had not thought of - some I had and already use but the Crimean I have barely looked at and a have a few I think! You have a great insight and it is useful for the est of us thast do not go into the top 100 - I rarely bother these days as not got the time (or indeed your skills in remembering all the character traits that you need to create such strong teams.

    I for one copy lots of teams - I have had my own set ups of course but when I new meta occurs I tend to face a great team that I cannot beat and look to use it for myself - often set up a little different perhaps but I do not have lots of time to startegise that much and rely on the community to help me with tactics on new difficult dungeons and the like - most of the time I am fine - I use a heavy hitting team with top talisman and that usually works! No real skill, just a battering ram!!

    Anyway, I for one want to say thank you to you and others on here who do this sort of thing - it is a real help to us lazy sods (well me for sure) who have no memory and less time to dwell on the nuances of changing a meta - fantastic commitment and time needed to be so knowledgabloe about so many aspects of the game...and also for being in the top tiers and sharing that experince against such varied team types.

    My defence team is ancient but where I am in the arena means I catch some folk off guard as my team looks soft - I still pick up a usual 60%-70% defence win rate but that is just because of where I am. As soon as I hit the top 200 that drops, unsurprisingly, as my team gets battered to death by those with a mastery of the characters and synergies needed and who cannot get caught out by a visual slight of hand. Saying that I did just change my defence a few days ago and I think it may be similar to the ones you mention above!

    All HAIL Stormseye!
    Missing the following characters (well the ones I want!):

    Samurai Emperor Eddie - Pharaoh Ramesses Eddie - Lone Star - Fallen Icarus Eddie - Oni Eddie
    Krampus - Dark Lilith - Minotaur - Lucifer - Minotaur - Irigami - Cosmic Shinobi

    "We oil the jaws of the war machine and feed it with our babies" - Two Minutes to Midnight - Powerslave

    scott-5496

  8. #68
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    Still would really like to see more parity in the arena part of the game. The meta is always so limited and narrow. Not enough choices
    for players to customize according to their tastes and style. Either use the flavor of the month (which always includes a new talisman set) or lose. Getting boring.

  9. #69
    Senior Member edsel's Avatar
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    This is my go to post when I'm lagging in PvP, things have really amped up recently and I am hitting barriers more often. My team is so last month, no Max Awakened anything or Lords going up against new characters and builds that are very challenging. The power gap is increasing between the have and have not, right now I am in the not category and struggle to get 4000 points. All teams up here are beating me up and I am becoming very ready to heavily invest in my roster to remain able to compete.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Yup's Avatar
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    The "master" of the arena is how the Ai gets special favor....

    - I have Orbit Talismans in play.. Yet Raven Witch is doing damage on my side.. Yet my Raven Witch CAN'T damage the AI team if they have Orbit Talismans.....

    - I have Labyrinth Talismans in play, yet my team takes damage pretty much every hit..(Not from Quantum talisman character) the AI character with Labyrinths can take 6 or 7 turns because it refuses to take damage 90% of the time. I've killed entire teams 5 or 6 times because the Raven Witch with labyrinths WON'T take damage when she's at a sliver of HP.

    - My Charlotte gets populated with Silver buffs.... no passive disable anywhere in sight.

    - My Characters die and revive and NO passives will function EVER again. The AI characters die and revive with FULLY FUNCTIONAL passives.

    - My Raven Witch will not clear some silver buffs, ever.. among these are perfect crave, perfect blind, and perfect stun.

    - W LOL on the AI side counters EVERY attack, regardless of "awaken" level. I mean EVERY attack unless frozen/stunned. My W LOL counters roughly 60% of the time.

    - Charlotte with vipers on AI side... see above.. counters EVERY attack and ALWAYS heals the character with the least HP - My Charlotte with vipers, counters about 70% of the time and pretty much always heals the character with the MOST HP (She won't even heal herself when close to death).


    It is simply frustrating when things do not function as they are expected to function.

    I've given up on PvP. It's such a shit show with the same teams over and over and over an over and the same inaccuracies over and over and over and over...
    Last edited by Yup; 10-01-2019 at 08:24 PM.
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