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  1. #1
    Senior Member Zugzwang's Avatar
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    Iron Buffs/Debuffs

    These could be what Golden Buffs/Debuffs started off as, but they would actually not be removable (barring the RARE exception) and they themselves would be very rare. Golden effects are everywhere now and they are removed pretty easily as well.

    An example would be if these super rare “Iron buffs” were given as skills to only the weaker natural 3 star Eddies. Then a very select few of the beloved yet pathetically weak (even when maxed and sharded) original 3 star characters could have the ability to remove these iron buffs or inflict Iron Debuffs. Something like that. This would make them more appealing—especially situationally in a gauntlet match for example. If you didn’t have the needed character to remove the buffs then the buffs would stay the entire battle, making it much harder to win as a special buff should. If you used one of the few toons that can remove an Iron buff already in a non refresh grade, then too bad for you— you’d have to try overcome it some other way.

    Just a thought since again, golden effects are EVERYWHERE as are the abilities to remove them. They’re almost the same as normal effects since a lot of abilities that remove them use the word “including” golden effects. If more abilities ONLY removed golden effects (as a few do) it would be better, but this isn’t the case.

    Anyone else think a “level 3” effect would work in This game?
    Last edited by Zugzwang; 02-23-2019 at 02:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Liu's Avatar
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    I knew it ... not even two weeks have passed since this.

    I'm very much against this idea, we have enough buffs as is. Plus however you'll imagine it to be, just iterate forward for a few months and it'll be completely different and absurd. Though should it come I want the names to be as I originally suggested - platinic and niobium. :P
    Liu-5868

    from a world of magma to a cold rock face,
    the ascent of madness and the human race

  3. #3
    Senior Member Yup's Avatar
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    This what Gold Buffs WERE....

    This is what Silver Buffs WERE....

    Imagine a time then the Valkyries were the strongest characters because nothing removed the buffs they granted/inflicted. The Gunner/Assassin Valkyrie pair ruled PVP... yeah.. kind of hard to believe today.

    I really don't think another stack of buffs would be a good thing. But.. rest assured when the "power creep" is getting too thin.. they'll introduce something to make new characters more powerful than any currently existing character.
    Last edited by Yup; 02-23-2019 at 10:06 AM.
    -----
    insert witty remark here.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Zugzwang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liu View Post
    I knew it ... not even two weeks have passed since this.

    I'm very much against this idea, we have enough buffs as is. Plus however you'll imagine it to be, just iterate forward for a few months and it'll be completely different and absurd. Though should it come I want the names to be as I originally suggested - platinic and niobium. :P
    First off you didn’t actually suggest this idea as something you’d like to see. You mentioned it in a manner as if you were disgusted by the idea of it and the silly names you mentioned also reflect how you feel about the idea. I understand your feelings on not wanting the game to go downhill “in a few months” but what you may be failing to understand is that
    1. power creep is not exclusive to this game as you implied in the post you linked to. It happens in games of this type. Think of it less as power creep and more as power cycling and it will be more fun

    2. I didn’t suggest any “new” buffs, which I hope the devs continue to conceive as they are mostly what the game is about. What I suggested was a tier of buffs that has less to do with adding to power creepand more to do with balance and reviving the idea of what golden effects were meant to be while at the same time adding interest back to some older characters. My suggestion was specific in that they would be limited to a very few characters. You’re linked post mentioned them as something that would make everything overpowered. But thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter. I respect your viewpoint even though we differ on opinion. Plus I’m right and you’re wrong

    So we have 2 against. Anyone for?
    Last edited by Zugzwang; 02-23-2019 at 01:16 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Liu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
    First off you didn’t actually suggest this idea as something you’d like to see. You mentioned it in a manner as if you were disgusted by the idea of it and the silly names you mentioned also reflect how you feel about the idea.
    You got that right. I hate this idea, which is exactly why I didn't suggest it explicitly. The names aren't silly though, they're just iterated the metals further and I got that idea from the difficulty levels of sacred.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
    My suggestion was specific in that they would be limited to a very few characters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yup View Post
    This what Gold Buffs WERE....

    This is what Silver Buffs WERE....
    Quote Originally Posted by Liu View Post
    Plus however you'll imagine it to be, just iterate forward for a few months and it'll be completely different and absurd.
    The point here is, that it may be a good way to enhance some of the obsolete eddies and toons, it will NEVER be limited to those. It will be applied to more toons for sure. It will also never be limited to a select range of buffs. Furthermore it opens the door for even more stacks of tiered buffs. Many have already pointed out the game is too buff heavy right now, what you are suggesting will inevitably lead to an inimaginably confusing jungle of buffs and probably cause bugs on a scale that will make the games current state look like a bug free and well tested beta version. The more buffs you have, the more combinations there are. Those combinations rise exponentially in the number of buffs and tiered stacks, once a bug occurs they will probably never be able to fix it because of this. Please don't take this personally, im just appalled by what this may lead to.

    In case any dev reads this, please PLEASE don't introduce this.
    Liu-5868

    from a world of magma to a cold rock face,
    the ascent of madness and the human race

  6. #6
    Senior Member Zugzwang's Avatar
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    I’m not taking it personally. I just think what you call a confusing jungle of combos is what the fun of the game is. I agree about bugs being an issue but they don’t have to be. If the rules are programmed correctly they can work correctly with thousands of interacting effects. This mobile game may not sustain that level of interaction but there are games that do and work fine. I thought the whole strategy was a complex Rock Paper Scissors type game with Maiden theme. The more variables the more fun. As long as it always works as stated. Heck they could eventually make colored buffs like the character classes and make giving and removing them more situational. My thing is—I don’t like that so many toons can remove effects or give the same effects. Buffs, debuffs and removal should be limited more by type to certain characters. It makes them matter more. Not something like this toon hits and removes 4 buffs including golden buffs. That makes what the buffs are meaningless. They should only remove certain things so you can strategize. I know the game isn’t there yet as far as bugs but that’s what I was hoping for one day. You shouldnt just be able to roll in with an assassin hellraiser and remove a bunch of buffs regardless of what type they are. There should be limits.
    Last edited by Zugzwang; 02-23-2019 at 02:33 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Liu's Avatar
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    Now if you're talking about revamping the entire buff system instead of introducing a new tier I'm all in for that.
    I admit it's very tempting to think about colored buffs that are tied to the specific classes, i.e. blue buffs by mages red buffs by warriors etc. We could take this on step further and render classes immune to buffs of the color they are strong against, meaning a sentinel wouldn't be able to apply a green debuff to a warrior.
    We could leave some of the golden and silver buffs that wouldn't be class specific. I'm thinking particularly shroud, ghost and perfect health (the ones that are already a bit more exclusive), while for the silver buffs I'd definitly leave perfect corruption as is. And maybe back to the roots and render all golden/silver buffs non-removable, except maybe for an ultimate like POM ed who also debuffs his own team. All the remaining buffs could then be made class specific. If you don't want to tier the buffs, just make them class specific and follow the rock paper scissors principle of the damage types that are already there .. then ... honestly I like it.

    Long story short:
    original idea of new tier > no,
    revamp the buff system > hell yes !
    Liu-5868

    from a world of magma to a cold rock face,
    the ascent of madness and the human race

  8. #8
    Senior Member Zugzwang's Avatar
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    Revamp the whole buff system. It’s a major part of the game. Once done then maybe a third tier of buff/debuffs could work as stated and be limited.

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