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  1. #51
    Administrator Durandal_LOTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuzakMaker View Post
    Considering Durandal has flat out said they think we are lying since they lack the ability to replicate bugs that happen for us virtually all of the time, I have lost what little faith I had in this team.

    If you aren't a whale, you don't matter to them.
    Please do not spread anecdotal conclusions about things others say when they have not. It is exhaustive negativity that does not aid in finding a solution.

    Let me first say that when players collect and share information regarding various bugs on the forum, it helps by a mile. When it comes to support tickets and due to the large number of requests we receive, we have to help based on a hierarchy of priorities. I understand the frustration of highlighting an issue and not seeing it resolved right away, as each of those things is doing something to sour your individual experience.

    Regardless of who writes in, spender or not, one of our priorities is ensuring that everyone has access to the game. While a frustrating combat bug might seem critical (and in some cases it can be), there might be another who cannot log in to their account altogether. You might not ever hear from this person or know them personally, but they exist. I understand why you feel like it seems like we're ignoring some issues over others, but know that we're always gathering information about bugs even if we aren't able to personally address every report about the same issue. Fixes and systemic improvements are always being worked on at every given moment, so the challenge is deciding what to patch up or improve first. Sometimes we fix issues knowing we can get them out quickly and sometimes we embark on larger scale fixes that require more time.

    When bugs, issues and feature feedback are compiled in forum threads, it makes it more efficient for us to see clearly where something is amiss. The more clarity we receive, the faster and more likely we can fix something. If the information we receive lacks definition and context, we don't assume a player is lying when we say that we need more evidence (why would someone lie about a bug - that'd be trolling on another level). It's that when presented with multiple issues, we prioritize them based on impact as well as how efficient we can be about fixing any particular issue.

    There are exceptions to this where despite not having clear reproducible steps, the impact of a given issue is weighted heavily enough that we'll pause other projects in order to find out what's happening. A recent example of this was with Babylon Talismans. They were reported as bugged, but it turned out that the talismans themselves were working perfectly fine and that the real issue was sourcing from something else. This repeated investigation would have been less likely if it weren't for the nature of the issue and the clear and testable information provided by a particular player. While that time could have been spent on a few minor bugs, the issue was critical enough that it was worth pursuing further.

    When reporting bugs, any information helps, but know that every bit of extra information can make a big difference in how fast we are able to address particular issues. Hearing multiple players say "The thing is broken!" will put that issue on our radar for sure, but citing specific details (such as the exact combination of characters and talismans on both teams in a battle and if possible, a recollection of the order of events that lead up to a bugged interaction) will make a world of a difference. This is because there are some issues that seem like they stem from one source but are in fact due to another.

    Anyways, apologies to anyone in this thread if they were expecting specific shout outs to issues listed throughout. Major props to the constructive individuals who put this kind of stuff together. Know that we'll try to approach and fix as much as we can at any given time. Thanks for helping us improve the game for everyone, veterans and novices alike.
    "May the Lord smile…and the Devil have mercy."

  2. #52
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    Hell yea! ^^^

  3. #53
    Senior Member scimitar's Avatar
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    Yes, it's time to relax and have some fun. There will be more errors.
    I almost learned how to deal with it. Now I'm not angry when GRE dies of "doom", but for some reason he is still playing; when GRE cleans itself and allies of debuffs, although its passive disabled. A lot of different things. I just shrug.
    Here is the last one. Gauntlet. Rewards, by the way, are not accrued.
    On the Horus, the talis is blight. But there is fury and skills.
    Don’t say it’s because of the dogName:  Screenshot_2020-07-05-22-42-44.png
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  4. #54
    Administrator Durandal_LOTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scimitar View Post
    Don’t say it’s because of the dog
    Attachment 8588

    It's very likely that this is the dog's doing. Gunner Pharaoh Dog King provides his team with Immunity to "All Skill Disabling Effects", which includes Taunt, Silence and Seal effects - pretty much everything that disables your power and fury abilities. This includes innate effects as well, included in effects like Moonchild's passive and what Blight Talismans inflict on the wearer (strategic self-infliction for farming purposes).
    "May the Lord smile…and the Devil have mercy."

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandal_LOTB View Post
    stuff.
    All of this sounds nice but actions speak infinitely louder than words meant to placate

    We have had bugs exist for years that rob players of paid resources.

    Tickets take weeks months and in rare cases years to be addressed. When they are addressed it's either an empty we're sorry or an empty promise that it will be fixed.

    My day job is app development and trust me when I say that this app is hurtling towards disaster. New content is pushed out with bugs constantly leading to a growing pile of bugs.

    I too have dealt with what seems like an insurmountable pile of tickets and you know what helps? Actually fixing the issues.

    As regards to me saying you called me a liar. You did. I gave you a 100% replicable method of the killer bug and you said that it wasn't true thus calling me a liar.

    When this game works it's amazing and I have a blast but unfortunately the mess of bugs and growing pile of support tickets that have gone without answering I am losing massive amounts of faith in the entire team. As I said, I'm on the other side of the equation in my day job. It's a smaller team on some projects so I have done every aspect from project management, to responding to customer support, to server maintenance, to writing the code. None of this comes from a source of anger but of frustration knowing that a better experience for everyone is possible.

    The whale comment is just a sad fact of business. Whales keep the lights on and non paying customers don't even stock the coffee pot. As long as the app supports payments there will always be whales to take advantage of who will make purchases. We have to bank on them and it sucks but that's just the way it is.
    MuzakMaker-3591
    Alex Minor does not provide customer service. He closes tickets without any attempt to solve them. I have been cheated out of ironite and amulets from the servers constantly disconnecting and the entire support staff does not care.

  6. #56
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    I think I've only said this on the discord so I'll throw it here too.

    If the constant stream events must continue instead of putting new content as the rewards there are plenty of existing characters, materials, and talismans that were only available once or are hard/rare to get normally that would make wonderful rewards for the events instead of something new that hasn't had the time to be thoroughly tested.

    A delayed but perfect rollout is virtually only remembered as perfect but an on time and horribly bugged rollout is only remembered as bugged.
    MuzakMaker-3591
    Alex Minor does not provide customer service. He closes tickets without any attempt to solve them. I have been cheated out of ironite and amulets from the servers constantly disconnecting and the entire support staff does not care.

  7. #57
    Senior Member scimitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandal_LOTB View Post
    Attachment 8588

    It's very likely that this is the dog's doing. Gunner Pharaoh Dog King provides his team with Immunity to "All Skill Disabling Effects", which includes Taunt, Silence and Seal effects - pretty much everything that disables your power and fury abilities. This includes innate effects as well, included in effects like Moonchild's passive and what Blight Talismans inflict on the wearer (strategic self-infliction for farming purposes).
    Right. But this continues a series of questions. The dog’s passive is stronger than talis. But the passive of the awakened moon child is not stronger, for example, Yggdrasil or Cosmo Musashi.
    and thanks for the answer

  8. #58
    Administrator Durandal_LOTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scimitar View Post
    Right. But this continues a series of questions. The dog’s passive is stronger than talis. But the passive of the awakened moon child is not stronger, for example, Yggdrasil or Cosmo Musashi.
    and thanks for the answer
    In this case it's probably how each individual talisman's immunity effect is set up. Sometimes an immunity effect is set up in such a way where it removes the effect first, then applies the immunity. Sometimes it's just the immunity effect so anything that's already on the character will stay on them (like if enemy Moonchild's effect goes first before your Yggdrasil talismans get applied)...and you know what, we can probably fix this sometime soon too so that you'll still get the immunity even if Moonchild is on the enemy team.

    Nonetheless, it sounds like Gunner Pharaoh Dog King's immunity is removing the effect before applying the immunity. This is my assumption, but it's most likely what's happening.
    "May the Lord smile…and the Devil have mercy."

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandal_LOTB View Post
    In this case it's probably how each individual talisman's immunity effect is set up. Sometimes an immunity effect is set up in such a way where it removes the effect first, then applies the immunity. Sometimes it's just the immunity effect so anything that's already on the character will stay on them (like if enemy Moonchild's effect goes first before your Yggdrasil talismans get applied)...and you know what, we can probably fix this sometime soon too so that you'll still get the immunity even if Moonchild is on the enemy team.

    Nonetheless, it sounds like Gunner Pharaoh Dog King's immunity is removing the effect before applying the immunity. This is my assumption, but it's most likely what's happening.
    This is why we need an order of operations or more clear descriptions on skills, passives, and talismans. At the upper levels of gauntlet and arena it's a lot of guessing on our parts on how everything will interact. Once we figure things out it feels like going through a flowchart to make sure desired outcomes will happen.

    Add on top the ever present "is this a bug or feature" when things don't match the description it becomes easier to understand why players say "arena is pointless" and "gauntlet isn't worth the hassle".
    MuzakMaker-3591
    Alex Minor does not provide customer service. He closes tickets without any attempt to solve them. I have been cheated out of ironite and amulets from the servers constantly disconnecting and the entire support staff does not care.

  10. #60
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    ive thought about this for a long long while now... what this game needs is a clear description of each "phase" of every combat step of each turn in the game. Hell even the word "turn" has multiple meanings. Sometimes a turn is considered the full cycle of your attack, the enemy attack and back to you for the next "turn" Other times "turn" simply only refers to one players actions.

    I used to play a card game called Magic the Gathering. Im sure many on here will know of the game. That game has a massive rule book, but one of the best features is a clear description of what happens when and which player has priority. You could easily publish a similar article outlining the priorities (and then also actually make sure the game is designed for and adheres to these priorities). This would do many good things. We consumers would understand how the game works. Everyone would know when a bug is really a bug and not just a misunderstanding or assumption of what they think the game should do. It would make it much clearer when to report something and give us the ability to describe the bug more clearly in a report.

    For reference:

    From the Comprehensive Rules (July 3, 2020—Core Set 2021)

    500. General
    500.1. A turn consists of five phases, in this order: beginning, precombat main, combat, postcombat main, and ending. Each of these phases takes place every turn, even if nothing happens during the phase. The beginning, combat, and ending phases are further broken down into steps, which proceed in order.
    500.2. A phase or step in which players receive priority ends when the stack is empty and all players pass in succession. Simply having the stack become empty doesn’t cause such a phase or step to end; all players have to pass in succession with the stack empty. Because of this, each player gets a chance to add new things to the stack before that phase or step ends.
    500.3. A step in which no players receive priority ends when all specified actions that take place during that step are completed. The only such steps are the untap step (see rule 502) and certain cleanup steps (see rule 514).
    500.4. When a step or phase ends, any unused mana left in a player’s mana pool empties. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack.
    500.5. When a phase or step ends, any effects scheduled to last “until end of” that phase or step expire. When a phase or step begins, any effects scheduled to last “until” that phase or step expire. Effects that last “until end of combat” expire at the end of the combat phase, not at the beginning of the end of combat step. Effects that last “until end of turn” are subject to special rules; see rule 514.2.
    500.6. When a phase or step begins, any abilities that trigger “at the beginning of” that phase or step trigger. They are put on the stack the next time a player would receive priority. (See rule 117, “Timing and Priority.”)
    500.7. Some effects can give a player extra turns. They do this by adding the turns directly after the specified turn. If a player is given multiple extra turns, the extra turns are added one at a time. If multiple players are given extra turns, the extra turns are added one at a time, in APNAP order (see rule 101.4). The most recently created turn will be taken first.
    500.8. Some effects can add phases to a turn. They do this by adding the phases directly after the specified phase. If multiple extra phases are created after the same phase, the most recently created phase will occur first.
    500.9. Some effects can add steps to a phase. They do this by adding the steps directly after a specified step or directly before a specified step. If multiple extra steps are created after the same step, the most recently created step will occur first.
    500.10. Some effects can cause a step, phase, or turn to be skipped. To skip a step, phase, or turn is to proceed past it as though it didn’t exist. See rule 614.10.
    500.11. No game events can occur between turns, phases, or steps.
    From the Comprehensive Rules (July 3, 2020—Core Set 2021)

    117. Timing and Priority
    117.1. Unless a spell or ability is instructing a player to take an action, which player can take actions at any given time is determined by a system of priority. The player with priority may cast spells, activate abilities, and take special actions.
    117.1a A player may cast an instant spell any time they have priority. A player may cast a noninstant spell during their main phase any time they have priority and the stack is empty.
    117.1b A player may activate an activated ability any time they have priority.
    117.1c A player may take some special actions any time they have priority. A player may take other special actions during their main phase any time they have priority and the stack is empty. See rule 116, “Special Actions.”
    117.1d A player may activate a mana ability whenever they have priority, whenever they are casting a spell or activating an ability that requires a mana payment, or whenever a rule or effect asks for a mana payment (even in the middle of casting or resolving a spell or activating or resolving an ability).
    117.2. Other kinds of abilities and actions are automatically generated or performed by the game rules, or are performed by players without receiving priority.
    117.2a Triggered abilities can trigger at any time, including while a spell is being cast, an ability is being activated, or a spell or ability is resolving. (See rule 603, “Handling Triggered Abilities.”) However, nothing actually happens at the time an ability triggers. Each time a player would receive priority, each ability that has triggered but hasn’t yet been put on the stack is put on the stack. See rule 117.5.
    117.2b Static abilities continuously affect the game. Priority doesn’t apply to them. (See rule 604, “Handling Static Abilities,” and rule 611, “Continuous Effects.”)
    117.2c Turn-based actions happen automatically when certain steps or phases begin. They’re dealt with before a player would receive priority. See rule 117.3a. Turn-based actions also happen automatically when each step and phase ends; no player receives priority afterward. See rule 703, “Turn-Based Actions.”
    117.2d State-based actions happen automatically when certain conditions are met. See rule 704. They’re dealt with before a player would receive priority. See rule 117.5.
    117.2e Resolving spells and abilities may instruct players to make choices or take actions, or may allow players to activate mana abilities. Even if a player is doing so, no player has priority while a spell or ability is resolving. See rule 608, “Resolving Spells and Abilities.”
    117.3. Which player has priority is determined by the following rules:
    117.3a The active player receives priority at the beginning of most steps and phases, after any turn-based actions (such as drawing a card during the draw step; see rule 703) have been dealt with and abilities that trigger at the beginning of that phase or step have been put on the stack. No player receives priority during the untap step. Players usually don’t get priority during the cleanup step (see rule 514.3).
    117.3b The active player receives priority after a spell or ability (other than a mana ability) resolves.
    117.3c If a player has priority when they cast a spell, activate an ability, or take a special action, that player receives priority afterward.
    117.3d If a player has priority and chooses not to take any actions, that player passes. If any mana is in that player’s mana pool, they announce what mana is there. Then the next player in turn order receives priority.
    117.4. If all players pass in succession (that is, if all players pass without taking any actions in between passing), the spell or ability on top of the stack resolves or, if the stack is empty, the phase or step ends.
    117.5. Each time a player would get priority, the game first performs all applicable state-based actions as a single event (see rule 704, “State-Based Actions”), then repeats this process until no state-based actions are performed. Then triggered abilities are put on the stack (see rule 603, “Handling Triggered Abilities”). These steps repeat in order until no further state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the player who would have received priority does so.
    117.6. In a multiplayer game using the shared team turns option, teams rather than individual players have priority. See rule 805, “Shared Team Turns Option.”
    117.7. If a player with priority casts a spell or activates an activated ability while another spell or ability is already on the stack, the new spell or ability has been cast or activated “in response to” the earlier spell or ability. The new spell or ability will resolve first. See rule 608, “Resolving Spells and Abilities.”
    https://magic.wizards.com/en/game-in...-formats/rules
    PROUD to be a Jomsviking!

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