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  1. #41
    Member LandCrusher70's Avatar
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    "Restore" is hardly that now. It's more like "Skimpy health boost".
    This was one of the few things that made SoL handy. His Fury was nerfed some time back.
    Pretty much just another shitty fully sharded character in "My Team".

    SoL was my first Eddie after gaining the Wickerman Eddie. I used him throughout the campaign to completion. I may have him benched now...

  2. #42
    Senior Member The Educated fool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandCrusher70 View Post
    "Restore" is hardly that now. It's more like "Skimpy health boost".
    This was one of the few things that made SoL handy. His Fury was nerfed some time back.
    Pretty much just another shitty fully sharded character in "My Team".

    SoL was my first Eddie after gaining the Wickerman Eddie. I used him throughout the campaign to completion. I may have him benched now...
    What makes this nerf especially sad is that this is an Eddie that's relatively easy to draw for new players who was extremely useful from the get-go due mostly to his excellent heal. When you have a ton of options to replace him, it's not so bad, but I really feel for newer players.

    It was also (as I've said a couple of times already in other threads) a completely arbitrary nerf... no one asked for it, and it was entirely unnecessary. A nerf as random as this one has to be interpreted as a warning, I think... if SoL, then truly any Eddie--or any other character--can simply be nerfed on a whim at any time. It's a real shame, and it's just another slap in the face for those who've dared to shard a once useful character.
    EducatedFool-1193

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  3. #43
    Developer Kaz_LOTB's Avatar
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    Hi guys,

    I just wanted to jump in and add some context for why these particular changes were made.

    Essentially it comes down the the fact that the insane healing was never intended to exist on the character and was infact a tuning error. What we've done is set it to the expected numbers for this update based on the role the character is meant to fill in the game.

    That being said, I can understand if people have come to somewhat rely on that aspect of the character and may be upset that it has changed. To that end I will take a deeper dive into SoL Eddie in regards to how competitive his heal is with other Eddies of a similar tier and see if there is any need for additional adjustments.

    As an aside, the thing that this Eddie SHOULD be better at is the transferring of positive and negative effects and we also buffed him in this area. Both Tainted Attack and Twisted Trade now have scalings for those transfer effects and in addition will do more damage.

    Our end goal with tuning is to ensure as many characters are viable and competitive at their respective star tiers for the various pieces of content they are designed for, so it's not our goal to outright nerf characters for no reason. We always base our tuning around emphasizing on the specific strengths and weaknesses of the role and purpose of a character. It's something we constantly re-examine and try to improve for the broader benefit and enjoyment of players.

    In any case, I'm grateful for the continued passion and feedback around the character and we'll continue to keep an eye out for areas of improvement based on it and the character's role.

    Cheers,

    -Kaz

  4. #44
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    It is sad the after so much time you just realized that it was not intended. Again another toon fully sharded that becomes useless.

  5. #45
    Senior Member The Educated fool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB View Post
    Hi guys,

    I just wanted to jump in and add some context for why these particular changes were made.

    Essentially it comes down the the fact that the insane healing was never intended to exist on the character and was infact a tuning error. What we've done is set it to the expected numbers for this update based on the role the character is meant to fill in the game.

    That being said, I can understand if people have come to somewhat rely on that aspect of the character and may be upset that it has changed. To that end I will take a deeper dive into SoL Eddie in regards to how competitive his heal is with other Eddies of a similar tier and see if there is any need for additional adjustments.

    As an aside, the thing that this Eddie SHOULD be better at is the transferring of positive and negative effects and we also buffed him in this area. Both Tainted Attack and Twisted Trade now have scalings for those transfer effects and in addition will do more damage.

    Our end goal with tuning is to ensure as many characters are viable and competitive at their respective star tiers for the various pieces of content they are designed for, so it's not our goal to outright nerf characters for no reason. We always base our tuning around emphasizing on the specific strengths and weaknesses of the role and purpose of a character. It's something we constantly re-examine and try to improve for the broader benefit and enjoyment of players.

    In any case, I'm grateful for the continued passion and feedback around the character and we'll continue to keep an eye out for areas of improvement based on it and the character's role.

    Cheers,

    -Kaz
    With all due respect, Kaz (and, if I may say, it pains me to have to level these complaints, it really does... that's not what I'm on this board to do, and I try to avoid negativity as best I can, but I feel I simply must speak out this time, negative or not) SoL had been the best healer in the game for literally as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since about two weeks after the game launched. It had been a defining aspect of his for months and months on end... to put it plainly, if this heal was never meant to be the way for this character, it doesn't speak too well of whoever's decision it was to beat him with the nerf bat that this "error" went unchecked for so long.

    Perhaps a way to restore "Restore" would be to add skill sharding to augment the heal? This would mitigate its perceived overpoweredness for earlier game players while at the same time leaving SoL valuable as the healer we came to know him as for end game players. I really think that this option could be a good way to make him great again, and I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this suggestion...
    Last edited by Kaz_LOTB; 06-30-2017 at 02:48 AM.
    EducatedFool-1193

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  6. #46
    Developer Kaz_LOTB's Avatar
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    "...if this heal was never meant to be the way for this character, it doesn't speak too well of whoever's decision it was to beat him with the nerf bat that this "error" went unchecked for so long."

    I understand why you feel that way. I'll try and provide some more context to how that came about.

    That issue has actually be on the list of bugs for quite a while. It just takes a long time to work through all of the bugs with the limited design / engineering resources we have (literally hundreds of items in the backlog). Sometimes the bugs are just a simple data issue, which can take a few minutes to fix. Others require much, MUCH more work and can have systemic changes or unforeseen knock on effects (e.g. anything to do with the Prisoner's Passive). It's not at all straightforward to discern which bug fits into what category until we get the opportunity to take a detailed look at them.

    With so many resources tied up in other priorities, such as moving Brave New World and additional content and features along, many MANY issues will get shuffled down in priority. As we continue to work through the enormous backlog of bugs in order to improve overall quality and stability, we will eventually make our way through a series of outstanding issues such as this one, which was fairly minor and easy to fix. (In contrast, we have been in the process of large systemic fixes to things like all of the bugs dealing with shields and order of effect abilities, the block passive, prisoner's passive, etc. for months, which is finally–hopefully–coming to a close soon...)

    So in summary, this issue has been on the list of "Things to Fix" since last year and after discovering it was a simple data fix, it was implemented and finally resolved. In the current context of the game, it still feels like the correct decision, but I am again open to reviewing any character tuning based on feedback and when particular issues are raised by the community, that too can weigh in on what we might choose to prioritize.

    I'll take note of some of your suggestions for when I revisit the healing amount for SoL Eddie. In addition, we will continue to try to give you guys as much heads up as possible for any major character tuning and ability / status effect bug fixes as we can.

    Feel free to pm me directly if you have a question about the functionality or lack there of, of a specific character and I can probably give you a general sense of what bugs, tuning related issues, etc. are currently in the pipeline or backlog to be fixed and released at some future date.

    Phew. Sorry for the wall of text. Just wanted to give you a better sense of how the process works currently. It's been slow going, I know. But with some of the larger feature work now out of the way, we're hoping to accelerate the bug fixing process to provide higher quality, greater stability, and lots more new and exciting content.

    Thanks,

    -Kaz
    Last edited by Kaz_LOTB; 06-30-2017 at 02:49 AM.

  7. #47
    Member LandCrusher70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB
    Essentially it comes down the the fact that the insane healing was never intended to exist on the character and was infact a tuning error. What we've done is set it to the expected numbers for this update based on the role the character is meant to fill in the game.
    I never thought for a moment that his healing was an errror! The name is "RESTORE" for eff sake. It does (did) what the name implies.... restored health....
    It did not make him (and his allies) invincible. It did not make him (and his allies) have an unfair advantage. Anyone who has used him in PVP can tell you that.

    Why dick around with an established character anyway? They are what they are, and everyone is used to it...

  8. #48
    Member LandCrusher70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Educated fool View Post
    -


    With all due respect, Kaz (and, if I may say, it pains me to have to level these complaints, it really does... that's not what I'm on this board to do, and I try to avoid negativity as best I can, but I feel I simply must speak out this time, negative or not) SoL had been the best healer in the game for literally as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since about two weeks after the game launched. It had been a defining aspect of his for months and months on end... to put it plainly, if this heal was never meant to be the way for this character, it doesn't speak too well of whoever's decision it was to beat him with the nerf bat that this "error" went unchecked for so long.

    Perhaps a way to restore "Restore" would be to add skill sharding to augment the heal? This would mitigate its perceived overpoweredness for earlier game players while at the same time leaving SoL valuable as the healer we came to know him as for end game players. I really think that this option could be a good way to make him great again, and I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this suggestion...
    I didn't read this before I posted because of the goofy hi-jack thing KAZ did. Now that it has been "Restored",

    Great post....

  9. #49
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    I read here a bit, never post because so many people say things a whole lot better than I do. But this nerf has annoyed me beyond belief.

    This SoL Eddie is really not a great damage dealer, which I was always OK with, as it was complimented by such a great heal. This balanced out the character I thought. I liked using him, particularly in PVP as it gave me a point of difference, some variety from using Grim Reaper. It's like there are two - three Eddies worth using in PVP, which is really disappointing.

    With this Nerf, I've been losing more as the damage/healing just doesn't keep pace with the damage received. That's annoying given the amount of soul shards I've put into a character which I'll more or less retire in favour of bigger damage.

    I can understand the healing being needed because you think it is overpowered, but the nerf bat has been swung too hard. I think the healing should be something like 70% of health missing, whereas it seems more like 50% now.

  10. #50
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    This Eddie has been my main Eddie for a while now and I have burned a bunch of resources on him. Please seriously consider the unnerf. The restore hardly made him overly powerful or unbalanced the game. Thanks!

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