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  1. #1
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    Is it time to brand Nodding Frog's LoTB team the new "Roadhouse?"

    We have been through a lot over these last few months and a significant discussion has been tabled because we had a new team come in to take over/fix the old team's issues, and for all the problems, the game was new and exciting... both factors which have given Nodding Frog a pass.

    It has easily been 3-4 months since the changing of the guard, and the pure novelty has worn off leaving this issue to be examined once and for all: Since this team at Nodding Frog has taken over, are we truly any better off from the Roadhouse Days? I believe the only fair way to address this is to look at the record.

    1. New/Original Content: In 3-4 months, other than a long-defunct 4 day Halloween promo, there has been no new content whatsoever. LoL was unveiled in early August, which would have been a final Roadhouse development, or an initial Nodding Frog development. Since this time the only original expansion/feature proposed was sacrifice, which has no release date and has not been prioritized.

    2."Coming Soon" expansions: Arena/PVP, Night City, and Brave New World have all been attractions that were promised with the game's inception. To date, we have not seen so much a single one of these worlds or features.

    3. Game stability/bugs. Have we had better days/moments in the past with updates/patches? Yes. However, they have been replaced with new ones and old problems have reappeared with successive updates. People have been locked out for days recently and more issues than one can count have persisted. This appears why we have a BNW character release without the actual expansion. To date, I cannot recall a single substantive update that has not been plagued with a host of problems.

    4. Development staff/interaction: Thus far, development staffhave treated the "game and its players" as a "beta and its testers." Since August, there have been no fewer than three character adjustment updates and as many as more than a half-dozen. These are unannounced and are made primarily if not solely for the PVP feature that is not even available to players. Other than some possible staff convenience, these "balancing" measures serve no useful purpose for player and game alike. IF it were necessary, this could/should have happened following the release of PVP, not MONTHS before, and even then this drastic measure is a dubious one given a litany of freely-provided alternatives. Compensation or even a sincere apology is a pipedream for the poorly-executed patches and unilateral decisions made against the wishes of its players.

    5. Preservation/Development of Game Philosophy: The whole reason players have suffered this terrible RNG is due to the chance philosophy of the game. The more one grinds, the more one is supposed to earn chances for rare and powerful characters. Staff has opted to circumvent this (after players have committed to this) by neutering the power of these characters, making them rare in appearance, but on roughly-equal footing with common characters. Thus, they have since opted to present players with the worst of both worlds: The rarity aspect has become more cosmetic than functional with each new balancing session, and the RNG continues to be absurd, even with legendary souls that provide arguably common characters with a modest power upgrade. This further includes the choice to effectively eliminate rare souls as reward drops for substantially most/all of the game.

    6. Game Store: Roadhouse gave us cash deals for ironite/ironite for souls, XP, and SoT, and trooper badges for the same things available today. The "NF" developers have done nothing to expand trooper badge options. In store, they added similar class/soul packages that people have commented are insultingly expensive during the Roadhouse days. Additionally (and giving the benefit of doubt where it may/may not be due) they have released horribly-timed rune packs sold at an ironite premium during a known and neglected bottleneck. Thus, while the prices of packs are on par with the out-of-touch philosophy of Roadhouse, the selection has become at best, marginally better, while the random drops have become far worse (rare souls/xp runes) putting players in a much worse position overall than the Roadhouse days.



    If something is incorrect or missing, I am keen to hear about it, but this is where we are at right now. The net contribution of Nodding Frog in the 4 months of its tenure has been the release of a few character modules and a recent inventory expansion to 125. Otherwise, the game remains stagnant with ZERO added content. The game is no more stable now than it was then, and even if/when new material is released, successive updates/attempts all support the presumption that it (or pre-existing content) will be woefully buggy/unstable. RNG has not improved. If anything, it has worsened with the removal of rare soul drops and bottleneck lf XP runes. Not only has the RNG been worse, but rare characters are but a fraction of their original power making farming harder, new bugs prevalent, and the desire to acquire and develop them diminished.

    In short, I believe that the record provided above shows that Nodding Frog has done a piss-poor job in taking this game in a better direction than Roadhouse. In numerous respects, we have fared far worse for the experience. The bottom line is that the grace period is over. This is and has been NF's mess to control and handle for months now, and the game has had NO appreciable improvement since its predacessors ran it. I hope this is a sobering wake-up call to make changes in plans... or if necessary, in staff. This incompetence is no longer acceptable.
    Last edited by FlyingV; 12-13-2016 at 04:23 PM.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Nicko's Avatar
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    I'm an optimist and still have hope for this game. I will also say I really appreciate the communication from Sparton and Kaz. I do wish all the effort used to prepare for PvP - including the nerfs - had been redirected towards new content like Night City and beyond. I think it's a shift in the wrong direction, but until PvP is actually here it's tough to say that definitively.

    With that said, hard to argue with your analysis.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicko View Post
    I'm an optimist and still have hope for this game. I will also say I really appreciate the communication from Sparton and Kaz. I do wish all the effort used to prepare for PvP - including the nerfs - had been redirected towards new content like Night City and beyond. I think it's a shift in the wrong direction, but until PvP is actually here it's tough to say that definitively.

    With that said, hard to argue with your analysis.
    I really wish I could share your optimism. My hopes for this game are at the lowest point ever.

    Also the communication you are talking about I can't see anymore. The communication mainly exists of "here's an update and that what is nerfed" and after the update "oh sorry missed that one - yeah that one is bugged right now".

    But I do agree that all the effort should have been put into a much lower hanging fruit and serious bug fixing.

  4. #4
    Member Sleestak's Avatar
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    Great points here. I would like to see someone from Nodding Frog address these. Sparton and Kaz indeed have been great in answering questions and concerns where they've been able to. However, at this point I feel like someone needs to let us know where they intend to take this game in the long run.

    As FlyingV put it, the grace period seems to be over. With each update, my hopes have been up, and then repeatedly dashed. Each time I hope the long awaited new content is here, only to be slapped with a few characters and more nerfs, making the tedious and nearly pointless daily grind even less rewarding.

    I think they really need to hit a home run with any new content released before year end.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Kardas's Avatar
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    I have one small nitpick: BNW was only promised to us once the LoL dungeon came out, not when the game came out. IMO the main upside to Nodding Frog (which others have also commented on) is the communication with the developers.

    While this update has rather shaken my confidence in how this game is going (the previous tuning updates were passable at worst; this one has got me worried), there are still two short-term redemption possibilities.

    1. Brave New World. That character event must have been when they hoped to release it, so I reckon it'll be released significantly before PVP
    2. The Christmas event. Sparton hinted in the 12 Dec update thread that this won't be their only release this month.

    I am becoming increasingly worried that PVP balancing will irreparably damage the fun of PVE. Hence I have high hopes for a possible splitting of the two.
    Last edited by Kardas; 12-13-2016 at 05:12 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardas View Post
    I have one small nitpick: BNW was only promised to us once the LoL dungeon came out, not when the game came out. IMO the main upside to Nodding Frog (which others have also commented on) is the communication with the developers...
    What is this communication thing a few of you are talking about?

    Stop nerfing stuff - Yeah whatever
    Please stop nerfing stuff and fix bugs - Yeah whatever
    Please please please stop nerfing stuff and fix bugs - In the future bla bla ...
    Sacrifice, BNW and so on was promised a while ago and can you please stop nerfing stuff and deliver an update without making things worse - Yeah, whatever bla bla in the future ...
    12. December 2016 - Yeah whatever ...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hold View Post
    What is this communication thing a few of you are talking about?

    Stop nerfing stuff - Yeah whatever
    Please stop nerfing stuff and fix bugs - Yeah whatever
    Please please please stop nerfing stuff and fix bugs - In the future bla bla ...
    Sacrifice, BNW and so on was promised a while ago and can you please stop nerfing stuff and deliver an update without making things worse - Yeah, whatever bla bla in the future ...
    12. December 2016 - Yeah whatever ...
    TBH it was upto the Halloween event, think communications have been shit since

  8. #8
    Member Sleestak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hold View Post
    What is this communication thing a few of you are talking about?
    I believe that Sparton and Kaz actually responding in these forms is something that we wouldn't get in a lot of games.

    That being said, I don't think they're allowed / qualified to address updates, game direction, future content, etc. in detail. I would like to see Nodding Frog provide communication specifically regarding the points FlyingV made (and more). At this point we need some reassurance that they are listening to what we, as players, are requesting. I know I'm not the only one struggling to see where they intend to take the game and questioning how much longer I'm willing to hold out.

    There are times when I wonder if Nodding Frog has already given up on the game and are just throwing the minimum resources at it in order to get whatever revenue might be remaining.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardas View Post
    I have one small nitpick: BNW was only promised to us once the LoL dungeon came out, not when the game came out. IMO the main upside to Nodding Frog (which others have also commented on) is the communication with the developers.
    I was inclined to agree... for the incidental stuff. We have had a word back, and have even had a receptive ear once or twice. The problem is that it's insufficient, and more importantly, not the case where it counts. When they opine through their locked-in perspective that X and Y need "balancing," they get nerfed, period. No warning, no discussion, no receptiveness to their myopia. The only thing considered is over-neutering from their absurd changes that invariably break other parts of the game when this is incorporated. XP runes were given lip service, but nothing. Legendary souls complaints were outright minimized.

    While this update has rather shaken my confidence in how this game is going (the previous tuning updates were passable at worst; this one has got me worried), there are still two short-term redemption possibilities.

    1. Brave New World. That character event must have been when they hoped to release it, so I reckon it'll be released significantly before PVP
    2. The Christmas event. Sparton hinted in the 12 Dec update thread that this won't be their only release this month
    .
    The problem to both issues is considering everything in its totality. Sure, any patch in isolation can be a bit heavy-handed or buggy. Now take them out of isolation, and what we have in totalty is that the devs are not our allies and they bring a greater or equal amount of bad news with each update. Thus, everything they have done thus far has proven more or less to have sucked. Somebody's butt got saved with that bug fix, or that storm eddie was a great addition to the mix, but it always HAS to come with a bitter pill. Who got neutered today, what is now broken/unstable? Their hand/presence/help is no longer welcome when viewing all that's altered and disrupted.

    Same thing goes for new content hopes. Why have these hopes/unrealistic expectations given the record? They have proven incapable of adding ANYTHING other than a one-day halloween promo with 4-day bugged followup. Whatever they make is going to suck, not because it has to, but because their record has consistently proven this to be the rule rather than the exception.

    I am becoming increasingly worried that PVP balancing will irreparably damage the fun of PVE. Hence I have high hopes for a possible splitting of the two.
    But here is the thing... it ALREADY IS! This is now. This is recent past (even distant past as well for some players). Do you look at a new 4* or 5* pull as a kid at Christmas like you did in August/September, or is it now as much a chore to invest in, wondering what they are going to do this one as you consider whether to drop your stash skill shards you are too scared to move on this one? Do you have one or more toons collecting dust after a "Balancing act" rendered them impotent and boring? Are you out skill shards and vital strategies because a favorite is now neutralized?

    These people don't know how to leave bad enough alone. They don't have it in them to apologize, and they damned sure lack any decency to accommodate for their wreckage. That makes restoration a pipe dream. So, it would be one thing to have their stubborn disregard for the game's players wind up in the greatest PVP experience known to gamer, but the record demonstrates instead that we have a prideful myopic team hell-bent on delivering a buggy C to C- (at best) PVP experience at the cost of the stability of the platform, development of larger game-world measures (sacrifice/new content), and PVE enjoyment.

    This is the make or break point in many respects. If they prove the exception, then the grumbling subsides and the transgressions begrudgingly overlooked. But if they prove the rule (based on their past performance) then they will have fucked the whole stale PVE majority side of the game and delivered a worthless (for the cost) PVP in exchange, and that will go to far.
    Last edited by FlyingV; 12-13-2016 at 05:52 PM.
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    Vote with your money and vote wisely. Developers need to understand the consequences of disregarding the game's players. Free the Generals, Free the AoF, and all the other toons and Eddies they wrongfully ruined to make their job more convenient!

  10. #10
    Senior Member scott-5496's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleestak View Post
    I believe that Sparton and Kaz actually responding in these forms is something that we wouldn't get in a lot of games.

    That being said, I don't think they're allowed / qualified to address updates, game direction, future content, etc. in detail. I would like to see Nodding Frog provide communication specifically regarding the points FlyingV made (and more). At this point we need some reassurance that they are listening to what we, as players, are requesting. I know I'm not the only one struggling to see where they intend to take the game and questioning how much longer I'm willing to hold out.

    There are times when I wonder if Nodding Frog has already given up on the game and are just throwing the minimum resources at it in order to get whatever revenue might be remaining.
    That too is a fear of mine. I have no idea if this game does good business for them or not but I am assuming maybe not as it does seem like they are making as many errors as they are improvements - it seems that some have noticed that shards are not working in farming - if this is true then really this needs fixed for those who have a lot of shards - not me as such as I have not got a lot, less than 30 for sure. I am less bothered about the balancing stuff to be honest as I think PVP could be good, but these balancing updates all seem to have negative knock on effects for many.

    As I said elsewhere these are not effecting me overly - today I can still auto farm LOL 10 with no worries though yet to try Game of Death with my red team - again I don't think they have been affected by recent changes.

    Time will tell but agree with lots of others - new content needed soon and we need to have access to more runes to upgrade Talisman as they are a real struggle to get in decent numbers - mirror that with the number of shard you can get on LOL 10 for example - if we had a special event with access to runes that would help.
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