I also beat them, but it is quite tough. They are "almost" unbeatable, when they get the first turn advantage. Great pair especially for defense. As far as i have seen, "Debuff" is the king in PVP, especially between the top-tier players. Because top-tier players usually have a group important full maxed chars, this is why i see a constant victory & defeat balance loop between forumers. I wonder how it will work when PVP will be released out for worldwide.