PvP broken mechanics

[Frost]

Maybe this should be in the bugs thread, but is anyone else experiencing weird things tonight? I just lost two matches in a row, to the same team, because invisibility was removed when no characters on the opposing team had the ability to do that. I'm confused.

Did you hit someone that had void shield? void shield has a chance to remove buffs from the enemy team... Yeah, they are pretty good.

If thorns or other talismans existed this Prisoner thing would be solved. He can't disable talisman passives, can he? I never had a chance to test. What if you reintroduce thorns and other kinds of talismans, or even change some like blizzard shield to give a passive shield much like repel does, that affects all team and then one every round...

[MrFreeze]

It was removed when their team was attacking. It was bizarre.

Prisoner has no effect on talismans, just the passives. You can freeze him all day if he doesn't have immunity.

[CanyptianFit]

I had a situation we're all my beneficial stats transferred to the enemy while I attacked him/her with my hellhound. Was a total glitch and I ended up losing.

Was really weird. Clearly a glitch.

My hellhound attacking a grim reaper Eddie, and while I was attacking my beneficial stats transferred to them before I finished. Really?

:0

[Sparton_LOTB]

The intent is not to say we want other characters to exceed the value of the Prisoner. The intent is that certain combinations of characters should exceed the value (ie allow you to get a higher winrate) than any old team which splashes the Prisoner.

Kind of like a Prisoner, a Desert Maurader, a Golden Son, and a Tailgunner Eddie

That's not what I mean... if you wanted to have a defense that could be good against an attack team like that, and you have every character but the Prisoner... would you wish you had the Prisoner, or do you think you could make a defense that could be better than one which included the Prisoner?

[Roquetas-5312]

If you made the prisoner remove all passives then he becomes an offensive player only, there would be no need to put him in defense team at all. As for his offensive ability stun for 2 rounds is good but he will mess up a lot a synergies so probably would not be used a lot and would kill him for campaign.
So on balance I would rather see him removed from pvp over a change to remove all passives

It's a very difficult decision for the devs to make

[Demoonchild]

Yesterday my son told me that my Def team was solo OP, yes, I have a Prisoner... I tell him, "dear son, a team is just as OP as people think..."

And I try my team with a non Prisoner Team, and I went second, and I was able to win with no Allies killed.
My team wasn't even skillsharded, the talismans are not maxed neither...

I just use the same strategy that I use against refrigerator teams, high Hp and Def, AOE, and heal/debuff...

Prisoner is not a problem, is that people that makes everything a problem if they cant resolve it...

[BillLion]

I struggle with the idea of nerfing the Prisoner in the name of PVP.

So the best plan is to nerf a toon for one aspect of a game, running the risk of rendering it useless for the rest of the game?

Hmm, sounds pretty weak to me.

If people are so cheesed off about seeing him in PvP lineups, ban him from PvP. Just don't trash him for the rest of the game. The Prisoner is as solid a toon that LotB has in terms of balance in both the campaign and the dungeon.

But this rebalancing of characters has been going on for quite some time even before the devs launched beta PVP. Corrupt General was one of the ones people took the hardest, but even people that have him see how this makes sense in PVP. Unfortunately, nerfs (or rebalancing) are necessary to create a fun, competitive PVP environment.

We all just feel it should happen to the character we don't have.

[Schadenfreud-0217]

That's not what I mean... if you wanted to have a defense that could be good against an attack team like that, and you have every character but the Prisoner... would you wish you had the Prisoner, or do you think you could make a defense that could be better than one which included the Prisoner?

The Prisoner's passive is just way too powerful right now. He counters so many defensive strategies that would help you win if you were going 2nd, like using a Hellhound for the immunity or a Troll so as the other team doesn't wreck you, he even counters Angel of Pain (a.k.a. Blue Bat)'s Siege... Basically the point is he has no counter, except himself which makes him way too valuable in PvP right now.

So to answer your question - I don't think that right now there's a way you could make a better defense w/o The Prisoner than one with him.

[Frost]

Yesterday my son told me that my Def team was solo OP, yes, I have a Prisoner... I tell him, "dear son, a team is just as OP as people think..."

And I try my team with a non Prisoner Team, and I went second, and I was able to win with no Allies killed.
My team wasn't even skillsharded, the talismans are not maxed neither...

I just use the same strategy that I use against refrigerator teams, high Hp and Def, AOE, and heal/debuff...

Prisoner is not a problem, is that people that makes everything a problem if they cant resolve it...

Sorry, if Prisoner is not a problem, why you have the same exact team as Nicko? That team is pretty much op and you will win 90% of the time, being it 100% of the time if you go first. It's a clever team? Yeah, but it abuses every broken mechanic in the game:

- Multiple hits triggering talisman effects;
- DM passive triggering talisman effect 100%;
- Thief talisman filling the fury bar in one hit;
- Prisoner having no counter

Don't try to hide the problems. We all know that is broken and will be fixed/balanced. To say it's not is just a try to protect your team to easy wins.

[Nicko]

If you made the prisoner remove all passives then he becomes an offensive player only, there would be no need to put him in defense team at all. As for his offensive ability stun for 2 rounds is good but he will mess up a lot a synergies so probably would not be used a lot and would kill him for campaign.
So on balance I would rather see him removed from pvp over a change to remove all passives

It's a very difficult decision for the devs to make

I don't know if that's true. If he's on your defense, it still neutralizes Hellhounds so you can stun, Trolls so you can get damage in, etc. But it also makes you vulnerable as well...

I'm not saying this is the best answer. I agree this is a very challenging decision for developers. Other options are working as he currently does a certain percentage of the time (ex 60% chance to disable opponents passives), disabling one random opponent passive, or leaving him alone