PvP broken mechanics

[Frost]

what do we all have in common?

[Nicko]

Yup. Like I said - not rare anymore...

[Nicko]

And it's then a chicken - or - the - egg argument

Are a lot of these players at the top because they have Prisoners? Or do they have Prisoners because they play a lot and managed to score them - just as they're playing PvP a lot?

And yes, luck comes into play - you can play a lot and not have a Prisoner, or barely play at all and get lucky on one rare soul. But point is - Prisoner is no longer "rare", and these players have likely put in a good deal of grinding to get him - just as they do in PvP to rise to the top. It's the effort that's put them at the top more than a single character

[Sag7272]

If I remember correctly...

Regarding the Prisoner, I want to stress that we specifically do not want to nerf him if we can at all help it. I don't want this to become too much of a Prisoner rant thread, though... we'll discuss him more in detail later.

[Roquetas-5312]

@frost No 2 def teams are the same except where you posted same players twice so there is still some diversity.

[BillLion]

And it's then a chicken - or - the - egg argument

Are a lot of these players at the top because they have Prisoners? Or do they have Prisoners because they play a lot and managed to score them - just as they're playing PvP a lot?

And yes, luck comes into play - you can play a lot and not have a Prisoner, or barely play at all and get lucky on one rare soul. But point is - Prisoner is no longer "rare", and these players have likely put in a good deal of grinding to get him - just as they do in PvP to rise to the top. It's the effort that's put them at the top more than a single character

Not sure I'd agree he isn't rare. I've played since day one and have no Prisoner, CG, Hellhound, or some of the other meta PVP characters. I think people that have him put him in their team -and so we see him a lot more.

I'm not sure what should be done or if anything should be done at all. It just sucks that when I attack a prisoner team (with the proper support) I am guaranteed to lose, and often don't even get to control one character even one time, if I go 2nd. So my hope isn't on my solid defense (because Prisoner renders that null & void) it's whether or not I win the coin flip to go first. Not fun.

I just attacked pizza and won because I went first. I attacked Nicko and lost because he did. This is the way it goes, which forces people to think twice about attacking prisoner teams - which in turn gives an inherent advantage.

And to everyone's point -the moment I get a prisoner (if ever) I'll drop him in my PVP team too.

[The Educated fool]

Yup. Like I said - not rare anymore...

I don't know if you can say that unequivocally, to be fair... it's only 9 defense teams represented here (Miklos and mattyJ appear twice) out of what... 2000 or so defense teams in the Arena? Granted, there are certainly other examples of defense teams out there with the Prisoner too, but I would suggest the sample of defense teams with him would still statistically be significantly less than those without in our beta player pool... I'd guess maybe 10%? If that? Still relatively rare. (And yeah, that number is a pure wild guess, but an educated one, I think--at least, it's based on my own observations in the Arena... I'm no researcher. )

Anyway, to me, it's the differences in these teams that are more interesting than what they have in common. Everyone went with the combinations of characters that they had in their arsenals that they felt would work best to earn them some holds. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say that my own team was constantly evolving to reach the line-up they ended on (even somewhat desperately so, when they failed to hold a single time in more than 5 days--lol) and even now, there are other characters I'd consider rotating in, if/when I ever get them. Defense teams, much like attack teams, should be as fluid as possible, I would argue. The fun is in making the most, as I've said, of what you have, and it's only natural that we'd all want to put our best characters forward to have the AI fight for us.

Also, @Nicko: I agree with your chicken/egg analogy too. Well said.

[MrFreeze]

The only ones that are really deadly are the ones paired with the DM for me. I have no prisoner, so no way to avoid the slaughter if I don't go first.

[Nicko]

Not sure I'd agree he isn't rare. I've played since day one and have no Prisoner, CG, Hellhound, or some of the other meta PVP characters. I think people that have him put him in their team -and so we see him a lot more.

I'm not sure what should be done or if anything should be done at all. It just sucks that when I attack a prisoner team (with the proper support) I am guaranteed to lose, and often don't even get to control one character even one time, if I go 2nd. So my hope isn't on my solid defense (because Prisoner renders that null & void) it's whether or not I win the coin flip to go first. Not fun.

I just attacked pizza and won because I went first. I attacked Nicko and lost because he did. This is the way it goes, which forces people to think twice about attacking prisoner teams - which in turn gives an inherent advantage.

And to everyone's point -the moment I get a prisoner (if ever) I'll drop him in my PVP team too.

Point taken, and certainly I could be wrong as far as commonality. It just seems like there were a LOT more Prisoner teams after the Christmas event. That may be a one-off.

And I lost against Demoonchild today - who has the exact same defense as mine - without making a move. And I have a Prisoner. It's the Talismans that are the issue - if the Golden Sons hit you perfectly you're done. Once that gets fixed I think this discussion will really die down

[BillLion]

Point taken, and certainly I could be wrong as far as commonality. It just seems like there were a LOT more Prisoner teams after the Christmas event. That may be a one-off.

And I lost against Demoonchild today - who has the exact same defense as mine - without making a move. And I have a Prisoner. It's the Talismans that are the issue - if the Golden Sons hit you perfectly you're done. Once that gets fixed I think this discussion will really die down

Yeah, that will help for sure. And in the meantime we all use them to our advantage