Suspect Discussion: Prisoner

[Sparton_LOTB]

What It was Designed For
A character which supports his team by locking down enemy passives (with his passive) and abilities (by sealing/stunning).

What We Got
A character which defines the top-end PVP meta so much that he counters nearly every defensive strategy you can set up without taking a turn… and largely cannot be countered (as having a Prisoner sort of levels the playing field, but that doesn’t stop him from doing what he does).

Why This is a Problem

• Almost every interesting team composition choice that uses passives to help weather the first turn is nullified, reducing counterplay options
• Because the first turn or two are so critical (with many matches with 5 star characters only lasting 1-3 rounds), disabling all enemy first turn passive is disproportionately powerful

What We Could Consider Changing

• Make it so his passive applies a block passive status effect to a random enemy each round (reduce amount of impact)
• Make it so his passive doesn’t work on the first turn (reducing the scope of what he counters)
• Make it so his passive works on only certain passives (such as passives which aren’t first turn effects)
• Make it so his passive can still affect all enemies each turn, but only has a chance to per enemy (retaining his value most of the time while not being a sure thing each turn)
• Introduce talismans which have set effects that provide Damage Reduction Shields, Immunity, etc (giving non-passive options to survive the initial onslaught)

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Please let us know your thoughts on this character in the comments. Keep in mind that this is not a for sure set of changes we’re going to do to this character; this is merely where our appraisal design-side is of the character, and we want to discuss this more with the community to get a better sense if changes are necessary for this character or if this character is fine as is.

[Sag7272]

I'd personally vote for a tallisman set option, as it can make the matchup less predictable and prevent nerfing a character that isn't much more than what would be nerfed rendering him somewhat useless in PvE ...

A tallisman set have also the advantages of giving passive abilities to a whole new set of characters opening more diversity than a straight prisoner nerf would...

[zamasu]

I pretty much gave a few ideas in another thread. Glad that you devs are considering possible solutions:

1. Nerf prisoner's passive: "75% to disable one passive, 50% to disable 2 passives and 15% to disable all passives" or something along those lines.
2. Introduce more characters with the same or counter passive as prisoner
3. Introduce a new set of talismans, one that will grant the wearer "immunity to his passive", for example if gunner golden sons wear this sets of talismans his passive cannot be disabled by prisoner's one. I think this will be a great counter to prisoner's
4. Make a PvP rare "special reward" that grants the player first turn in any given match

[Shaolin85london]

I'd personally vote for a tallisman set option, as it can make the matchup less predictable and prevent nerfing a character that isn't much more than what would be nerfed rendering him somewhat useless in PvE ...

A tallisman set have also the advantages of giving passive abilities to a whole new set of characters opening more diversity than a straight prisoner nerf would...

I do agree with Sag, new talisman set s gonna be a further inspiration also for new toons with new abilities and also a revaluation of old toons. Very good thread, Sparton.

[mikmar]

My question is:
Is pvp so nice to justify all the nerf that is spreading to many chars ?
I'm not included in the pvp beta test, so I don't know if it's worth....
Pvp influences campaign gameplay causing disadvantages, and I'm seeing only that.
What are the advantages of pvp that can improve the campaign mode ?

[Mizrael]

A character i fell in love with already in my noob days in the campaign story, first play through (i didn't even know that he would be a powerful playable character)
Haven't seen him drop in a single soul i ever opened...sadly

On topic:
My vote too goes to the talismans. the prisoner plays also an important role in the PvE and any nerfing would turn him into a mediocre character, just not worth the slot.
considering his rarity, he should feel OP,same as other 5* characters i have never seen (CG,viking, tailgunner,pharaoh,aso).

[Derthona13]

Nerfing is bad for those that invested skill shard on a toon (I don't have the Prisoner by the way). Talismans seems the best option among the proposed solution.
And a way to evolve talismans quickly (BNW) would be appreciated

[Shaolin85london]

I don't think adding new talisman sets to the game will solve anything for pvp seeing that they can only be trigger on perfect attacks. Which we all know auto almost never hit perfect attacks without manually playing yourself.

There are already some chars in the game like Desert Marauder or Assassin pyro soldier, who got a perfect hit passivity, so they have a chance to trigger talisman effect. Furthermore they are dropped both at 4* so isn't so impossible get them from bos.

[invictus]

There are already some chars in the game like Desert Marauder or Assassin pyro soldier, who got a perfect hit passivity, so they have a chance to trigger talisman effect. Furthermore they are dropped both at 4* so isn't so impossible get them from bos.

I don't think I've ever seen an Assassin Pyro. You have one?

[Aristo4]

What We Could Consider Changing

• Make it so his passive applies a block passive status effect to a random enemy each round (reduce amount of impact)
• Make it so his passive doesn’t work on the first turn (reducing the scope of what he counters)
• Make it so his passive works on only certain passives (such as passives which aren’t first turn effects)
• Make it so his passive can still affect all enemies each turn, but only has a chance to per enemy (retaining his value most of the time while not being a sure thing each turn)
• Introduce talismans which have set effects that provide Damage Reduction Shields, Immunity, etc (giving non-passive options to survive the initial onslaught)

Make it so his passive applies a block passive status effect to a random enemy each round (reduce amount of impact)

Make it so his passive can still affect all enemies each turn, but only has a chance to per enemy (retaining his value most of the time while not being a sure thing each turn)

One of the above are the only options imo. Which is better is to be discussed, both have + and - .

A passive that's not working on the first turn is a bad idea imo,since most of them are first turn based anyway (moaning from prisoner owners).....working only against certain passives not appealing also (which to include and which not? - incoming moaning)....introducing talismans? why should I be forced to equip most of my team's chars with those to face a certain OP char? (no thx - my own moaning here).