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  1. #21
    Developer Kaz_LOTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slauki View Post

    so maybe the solution is better than i thought at the first glance. but it could change the whole game dynamic, depending on what talismans you are planning to introduce. if you don't do it carefully, you could create plenty of more options to make ridiculous OP tactics possible. some tactics, we cannot even imagine now...
    so it would be dangerous to change the whole dynamic, only to counter a single character....
    We've had PvP focused Talismans planned for a while now. It just so happens that a few of them would help add some counterplay to characters like the Prisoner.

    Also, the buffs generated by the Talisman Passives are still just buffs and can be stolen, stripped, etc. by other character abilities, so we're less worried that they will create a new problem as there are already plenty of existing counters to them.

    -Kaz

  2. #22
    Senior Member Sag7272's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB View Post
    We've had PvP focused Talismans planned for a while now. It just so happens that a few of them would help add some counterplay to characters like the Prisoner.

    Also, the buffs generated by the Talisman Passives are still just buffs and can be stolen, stripped, etc. by other character abilities, so we're less worried that they will create a new problem as there are already plenty of existing counters to them.

    -Kaz
    Really interesting...
    Could open so many possibilities 😊
    "Nothing lasts forever but the certainty of change"
    -Bruce Dickinson

    (English is not my first language)

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by slauki View Post
    i appreciate the discussion and the in depth analysis regarding the problems he cause:

    i have one additional counter idea for the prisoner:

    what if "immunity" save us also from prisoners passive? so he cannot remove our passive if immunity is on.

    he would have his natural counter and there are some chars which have an immunity passive or who can give the party immunity. that sounds good to me since it would give us more room for tactical maneuver. the game would gain some tactical depth too.

    and yeah i agree with aristo, why should we be forced to equip our team with specific talismans only to counter a OP char?
    but i could also live with that solution although i wouldn't love it.

    i would opt for the seal one passive option or something similar. But the problem is, that very few chacters have passives, so if he seals more the one
    nothing would change since there are maximal 3 passives available per match.

    but my favourite solution is immunity > passive agression :P

    ps: many more thoughts, but the broken machanic thread contain all relevant information so no need to get repetitive...


    Edit:

    point 3: also sounds okay, that he blocks all not first turn passioves like aof extra turn, block and revive. so we could survive the first round without beeing frozen or dead.
    btw: what about if prisoner removes all passives, also the passives of the own team? we had that suggestion in the other thred, sounds also okay for me.
    Lately we are disagreeing alot my dear dutch friend!!

    I believe that your "immunity passive" solution, will filled PVP with Angel Of Pain/Death Dogs + Artillery Dogs+Hellhound teams, and thats looks not that cool to me, since every team would have 2 of the mentioned chars + Mummy......
    Cancel passives starting on second turn, just will make him useless on campaign or LOL Dungeon...
    The option of 100% block one random enemy passive, 75% 2 enemies, 50%3 and so on sounds more likely to me...(% to be defined anyway)
    The talisman solution will break actual builds on any character.
    English is not my native language

    Demoonchild-7235 // Already full of nice troopers, some of them nice people too!

  4. #24
    Senior Member BillLion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slauki View Post
    i appreciate the discussion and the in depth analysis regarding the problems he cause:

    i have one additional counter idea for the prisoner:

    what if "immunity" save us also from prisoners passive? so he cannot remove our passive if immunity is on.

    he would have his natural counter and there are some chars which have an immunity passive or who can give the party immunity. that sounds good to me since it would give us more room for tactical maneuver. the game would gain some tactical depth too.
    I like this idea a lot. Not loving the talismans idea because very much.

  5. #25
    Senior Member MrFreeze's Avatar
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    I think the talismans sound pretty interesting. What happens when you put a blue bat in there though?

    The prisoner by himself isn't a problem in my opinion. It's the way he can be combined with others that causes the issues. Changing him might not be the best fix. Maybe looking at some of those other characters would solve the problem better.

    I don't have a prisoner by the way.
    MrFreeze-6530

  6. #26
    I do not like the idea of talismans that will be able to counter because that will take WAY too long. We're talking about an entire set of new talismans that need to be created and tested for bugs. Honestly no offense intended, but with the track record of the game this will set back the release of PVP, BNW, Night City, and most importantly sacrifice by many months. This is a needlessly complicated solution for a simple problem. The prisoner's passive should just have a chance of randomly blocking passives each round. This still makes him very useful but you won't automatically put him on any team and it solves the first round problem. You guys can still create awesome new talismans, but do it after you release all of the other promised content.
    Last edited by Kraznoff; 01-17-2017 at 02:54 AM.

  7. #27
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    Why not just ban the Prisoner from PvP?

    Seems a whole lot easier. And won't wreck him for other aspects of the game.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCarter View Post
    Why not just ban the Prisoner from PvP?

    Seems a whole lot easier. And won't wreck him for other aspects of the game.
    Now here's an idea that makes sense. Either this or make him drop like stupid corrupt ox cultists.

  9. #29
    Senior Member CanyptianFit's Avatar
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    Here is a crazy one.

    For PVE, no change to skills.

    For PVP, he blocks all enemy passives every round, and his own passives for the first round only. Thus any 2 round passive on his side will kick in on round 2 for one round only. Kinda like having a blue bat against him. Thus the only change would be that no passives are active round one. Even better would be if this was only when the prisoner gets first attack...no passives. If the prisoner team goes second, prisoner toon passives are active.

    So if prisoner team goes first no other passive are active when his team attacks. His passive activate prior to the other teams first attack. So he will get the benefit of defensive passive during first round.
    If prisoner team goes second, then any passives on prisoner team are live/working.

    Not sure if this is possible, but would keep his value in campaign untouched, but slightly modify his skill in PVP.

    This would prevent the tag team passive of the perfects freezing, killing on the first rounds without ever getting a move.

    If we get talismans that block him, it takes away from his uniqueness/value, IMHO.

    It's late, might be stretching it.
    Last edited by CanyptianFit; 01-17-2017 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Clarification.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Nicko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFreeze View Post
    I think the talismans sound pretty interesting. What happens when you put a blue bat in there though?

    The prisoner by himself isn't a problem in my opinion. It's the way he can be combined with others that causes the issues. Changing him might not be the best fix. Maybe looking at some of those other characters would solve the problem better.

    I don't have a prisoner by the way.
    Agreed

    It's what I said in another thread. Nerf him, remove him, make him subject to immunity, etc and the blue bat with the Siege passive is then the next "overpowered" character...except he's not hard to get
    Nicko-0517

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