Suspect Discussion: Prisoner

[Shaolin85london]

I don't think I've ever seen an Assassin Pyro. You have one?

Yes I got one and he does same passivity work as well as marauder does, but presently the second one passive is overpowered due a bug that it's already been detected and ll fix in a future update, I guess

[Sag7272]

I don't think adding new talisman sets to the game will solve anything for pvp seeing that they can only be trigger on perfect attacks. Which we all know auto almost never hit perfect attacks without manually playing yourself. So my option would be to only have his passive work on 1 enemy per round. And as for angel of fear which is not mention. I think his passive should also be changed to giving 2 members on his team a extra turn instead of all.

If the new sets where to act as a passive unaffected by prisoner ability anyone could "immune" self from him, no nerf needed for ANY character this way as you could build yourself passives out of talismans as a solution if you don't have right characters..

[slauki]

i appreciate the discussion and the in depth analysis regarding the problems he cause:

i have one additional counter idea for the prisoner:

what if "immunity" save us also from prisoners passive? so he cannot remove our passive if immunity is on.

he would have his natural counter and there are some chars which have an immunity passive or who can give the party immunity. that sounds good to me since it would give us more room for tactical maneuver. the game would gain some tactical depth too.

and yeah i agree with aristo, why should we be forced to equip our team with specific talismans only to counter a OP char?
but i could also live with that solution although i wouldn't love it.

i would opt for the seal one passive option or something similar. But the problem is, that very few chacters have passives, so if he seals more the one
nothing would change since there are maximal 3 passives available per match.

but my favourite solution is immunity > passive agression :P

ps: many more thoughts, but the broken machanic thread contain all relevant information so no need to get repetitive...


Edit:

point 3: also sounds okay, that he blocks all not first turn passioves like aof extra turn, block and revive. so we could survive the first round without beeing frozen or dead.
btw: what about if prisoner removes all passives, also the passives of the own team? we had that suggestion in the other thred, sounds also okay for me.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Man, we got a handful of off topic comments faster than I thought it would.

Please keep the discussion on topic (ie specifically relating to the Prisoner/dealing with him/why he shouldn't be nerfed/etc). I'll be deleting any comments/sections of comments which are off topic without prejudice. EDIT: Actually, maybe it wasn't that bad; tangential discussions relating to countering the Prisoner is OK, I guess.

Also, even if I don't respond to many of the comments and suggestions, we're reading everything that's coming in. Definitely some interesting suggestions we hadn't thought of.

[Sag7272]

Just imagine how unuseful he would become in PvE with a one sealed passive or something...
In lightbrigner deactivating one troll can't even imagine how unuseful in LoL with only one or two passive sealed? Sound like he'll be collecting dust and become a false joy to get one like a green pyro...

[Kaz_LOTB]

There are already some chars in the game like Desert Marauder or Assassin pyro soldier, who got a perfect hit passivity, so they have a chance to trigger talisman effect. Furthermore they are dropped both at 4* so isn't so impossible get them from bos.

I don't think adding new talisman sets to the game will solve anything for pvp seeing that they can only be trigger on perfect attacks. Which we all know auto almost never hit perfect attacks without manually playing yourself. So my option would be to only have his passive work on 1 enemy per round. And as for angel of fear which is not mention. I think his passive should also be changed to giving 2 members on his team a extra turn instead of all.

Just to be clear, the new Talismans we will be introducing allow characters to have an Immunity, Shield, Counterattack, etc. buff for 1 turn at the start of battle (they can be stacked to extend the duration). These Talisman Passive effects cannot be disabled by the Prisoner or other passives.

-Kaz

[slauki]

Just imagine how unuseful he would become in PvE with a one sealed passive or something...
In lightbrigner deactivating one troll can't even imagine how unuseful in LoL with only one or two passive sealed? Sound like he'll be collecting dust and become a false joy to get one like a green pyro...

hmm i don't thinkt PVE is so important, as i stated in the other thread i feel PVP is the future. But yeah he wouldn't help you in the troll levels anymore, that's right.

Just to be clear, the new Talismans we will be introducing allow characters to have an Immunity, Shield, Counterattack, etc. buff for 1 turn at the start of battle (they can be stacked to extend the duration). These Talisman Passive effects cannot be disabled by the Prisoner or other passives.

-Kaz

actually i thought about the talisman solution:

maybe it's not that bad, since it would also give us plenty of new options not only against the prisoner, also for the game in total. would give us more tactical opportunities.

so maybe the solution is better than i thought at the first glance. but it could change the whole game dynamic, depending on what talismans you are planning to introduce. if you don't do it carefully, you could create plenty of more options to make ridiculous OP tactics possible. some tactics, we cannot even imagine now...
so it would be dangerous to change the whole dynamic, only to counter a single character....

[Frost]

boy, I don't want to be in your skin now devs. This is a really hard one. Well, let me consider a bit:

Make it so his passive applies a block passive status effect to a random enemy each round (reduce amount of impact)

I don't think this one is a good idea. Could introduce more bugs, for example block a passive on an Eddie (does not have passives) instead of a Troll. Also this would de-characterize Prisoner.

Make it so his passive doesn’t work on the first turn (reducing the scope of what he counters)

This also no good. Since the first turn is so powerfull if you disable it in the first turn this would destroy him for teams that don't go first. We would have the same problem in the end, but this time Prisoner would be very very underwelming.

Make it so his passive works on only certain passives (such as passives which aren’t first turn effects)

This would also create a lot of bugs. Besides it is the same as removing Prisoner passive. He is there for this reason, and disablinf only for the first turn could be disastrous for the team if it goes second.

Make it so his passive can still affect all enemies each turn, but only has a chance to per enemy (retaining his value most of the time while not being a sure thing each turn)

This is one of the best solutions so far, althought I think the last one is better (see below). If well done this could make him viable in both defense and offense, introducing RNG that is something cool about this game and its PvP: you never know what will happen next.

Introduce talismans which have set effects that provide Damage Reduction Shields, Immunity, etc (giving non-passive options to survive the initial onslaught)

IMHO this would be a really good solution, because could make even more toons viable in PvP. Right now for example no one uses PSS: he's squishy, easily countered, not great damage, just heal for utility, hard to land his debuff. But, if we change for example Explosive talisman so that it gives explosive shield to all allies every turn, returning damage? Or Magus CotD with a Cyclone talisman that gives cyclone shield to all allies and freeze enemies at the end of turn?

This has a really large potential to be a game changer in PvP. And the good is: counters Prisoner and Blue Bat and Death Dog. The only con is that we'll have to farm and level a whole new set of talismans, especially because they might be 3 set, so it mighjt take some time to see them shine.

[Aristo4]

Just imagine how unuseful he would become in PvE with a one sealed passive or something...
In lightbrigner deactivating one troll can't even imagine how unuseful in LoL with only one or two passive sealed? Sound like he'll be collecting dust and become a false joy to get one like a green pyro...

He will still be useful deactivating 2/4 trolls out there....think of people with no CR and no prisoner who fight them with their passives on for months

[AmBush-UK]

Make it so he drops instead of Corrupt Ox Cultists, that way everyone will get one
If everyone has it no issue lol