Week 1 of PvP - The Prisoner, Attack Lists, and Pay to Win

[Nicko]

The last few weeks have been very active with PvP discussion. A lot of that has centered on the Prisoner. I’m a Maiden fan first - just happened to stumble on this game and now I’m addicted - but the sense of community with this forum and my Discord group has been half the fun. With that in mind – after some initial reluctance – I decided to share my first week stats. I’ve also summarized the other stats posted so far, as well as those from ShaolinLondo and Slauki (having received their permission)


Prisoner Teams

Nicko

Attack Wins: 99% (367/372)
Defense Wins: 36% (86/238)

SilentKnight

Attack Wins: 86% (160/185)
Defense Wins: 42% (77/185)

EddieV8

Attack Wins: 84% (287/342)
Defense Wins: 17% (47/271)

RCarter

Attack Wins: 88% (159/180)
Defense Wins: 27% (67/240)

Non-Prisoner Teams

ShaolinLondo

Attack Wins: 90% (423/471)
Defense Wins: 22% (45/206)

GMAC

Attack Wins: 89% (568/638)
Defense Wins: 23% (32/141)

CareTaker

Attack Wins: 90% (236/263)
Defense Wins: 30% (92/303)

Browno

Attack Wins: 84% (165/196)
Defense Wins: 35% (100/286)

Ubajoa

Attack Wins: 92% (228/248)
Defense Wins: 26% (86/328)

Slauki

Attack Wins: 97% (126/130)
Defense Wins: 32% (100/308)

CanyptianFit

Attack Wins: 94% (245/260)
Defense Wins: 30% (75/253)

KillHouse

Attack Wins: 91% (387/426)
Defense Wins: 21% (51/245)

Ringe666

Attack Wins: 95% (196/207)
Defense Wins: 30% (103/340)

This then brings some questions for discussion.

1) The role of the Prisoner. I had the best win percentage – but Slauki wasn’t far behind. I also have likely one of the deepest rosters. As Silentknight will tell you – I do attack Prisoner teams (and three of my losses were to him cause that SOB always goes first ). Likewise – Browno’s defense was as good as mine. Is the Prisoner not a factor? Is Browno simply a better strategist? I know The Educated Fool told me his Defensive win percentage was about the same as mine. Different approach – his looks really intimidating – but includes a Prisoner.

2) Number of attacks. Why would Caretaker get attacked 303 times – Ubajoa 328 – and GMAC 141? I’m sorry – something is not right. This is a huge deal because attack losses really hurt in the current scoring environment


I hope others chime in with their stats – especially those with a Prisoner. And while I’m at it I have to add that I really appreciate that although we may agree to disagree on certain points – Sparton is often a part of the dialogue. It makes a big difference. Things are occasionally said around here in a not-so-nice way, and he just lets them roll off.

We all want this game to succeed. Hoping these stats help in that quest.

Looking forward to the ensuing discussion

[Aristo4]

Here are my stats...No prisoner, and my Defence team 95% of the time had no siege this week (Tailgunner,Troll,AoF,Assasin Son)
Refilled SoW 3-4 times throughout the week, and ofcourse did regret it and didn't also participate in the last hours before reset, thus rank from around 60 to 400+



My observations based on Nicko's post and what I've seen so far in PVP

- Depending how well built Prisoner teams are, they usually got a greater Def ratio than non-prisoner teams.

- Non prisoner teams on the list have either under 90% attack, or a little above (Ubajoa) but that maybe simply be better game selection and they're avoiding Prisoner teams (like I do).

- Insane amount of attacks done by GMAC and Shaolin to be the only non Prisoner teams to reach top 5 - that's the pay-to-climb part of pvp given both player's 90% attack rates or lower, and 20 sth def ratios, sorry but that was a huge factor.

- Competitive Non Prisoner teams suffered this week about 300 attacks or more.Yet mysteriously Shaolin and GMAC suffered only 206 and 141 while they attacked combined for 1100 attacks...given they're non prisoners and their DEF rate, i'd expect them to have even more attacks suffered than 300. Attacked 640 times and 140 revenged? Sth is not right here, probably BUGGED lists.

- Impressive DEf rates mainly by Browno, Slauki and Caretaker (close to mine :P),given the number of attacks suffered.

- Impressive ATK ratio of Nicko (who of course is a very competent player), will simply loose while attacking every 29th of February (5/372) :P ..I'm really curious to see more player's attack rates having a prisoner.

- My real def ratio would be in reality under 25% with so many newbies repeatedly crushing on me 4 times in a row, yet nicko's I believe was always around 35% even on the limited beta.

- My real attack ratio would also be lower if I was taking on prisoners all day and not newbies in this first week. But no thanks, I usually don't attack prisoners.

- If you don't see how much of an impact a prisoner has on PVP you all need a ophthalmologist. He'll not drive you alone with a bad team, but with the most known mofos like a Troll they make their owners job SO much easier.

[Nicko]

Great observations. My highest defense in beta was an insane 62% - it was the week I discovered the crazy DM triggers perfect hit on GS triggers broken Thief/Freeze Talismans freezing entire opposing team and releasing Tailgunners fury. Good times! ��

Certainly a possibility more attacks are required if you don't have a Prisoner. But remember GMAC also had a lot more points than me. Would love to compare to Jofer16. I'll add I probably have one of the deepest rosters in the game. And I vary my team quite a bit based on who I'm attacking, though Troll and Prisoner are almost always there unless I'm attacking another Prisoner team. So that muddies the water a bit with a sample size of one.

The only way we'll truly know is if other players with Prisoners post their stats. And considering we're a highly mysterious secret society, that may or may not happen.

Attack lists? Slauki uncovered a behemoth earlier. Makes no sense. Even if people are reluctant to post their win/losses, knowing how many times they were attacked would be helpful. Cause right now something seems amiss

[Silentknight]

Silentknight (Prisoner) 2764 pts. 10th
Attack-86% 160/185
Much lower than yours as I usually attack higher ranks unless I need to use up SoW before work/sleep. Plus your roster is better & I don't avoid Prisoner teams! Not saying you do.
Defense-42% 77/185
Little higher than yours,not sure why,guess I'm just that good,lmao! Actually I have an idea why but I'm not telling you,lol!
Funny,attack & defense both 185.
Don't know how to post screen shots & can't be bothered. You'll just have to take my word for it.

Can't find your pay to win post so I'll put it here.
I've mentioned that I haven't spent $ on this game. Definitely wasn't bragging. Just making a point that you can have a decent roster w/o spending $. Actually spent $7 Google Play Rewards money so I guess that's something. Bought ironite on sale which was then used on rare soul pack.
And no,I'm not cheap! Been paying child support for 2 girls the last 14 years. Both in university so almost done!
And yes,I'm old! Maiden & video game fan since the beginning.

[CanyptianFit]

I've played religiously everyday since July, so while I hate the RNG, over time I've been lucky I guess to get a great set of toons.

1) if you spend enough time on the game, without spending money, you can eventually get good characters. I don't buy anything with my ironite but sands of time refills. (I've got way more ironite than gmac)

2) the get good QUICK trick is to spend $. And even if you do it's no guarantee. It can take a lot. I've spent some money on the game, considered it a donation. PVP isn't for the faint of heart and really, it's good for the developers as it does add more monetization potential for them. I hope they get more money to help with QA!

Again, after playing for a while I continue to accrue ironite, I guess I'm a hoarder, as I only spend on SOT/SOW.

I was able to get top 25 without draining my ironite stash in the past. So Iron Maiden's vision is realized, but only with lots of my time invested to get toons/talismans/shards, etc. Not sure I can devote the time on Saturdays going forward though to repeat.

1) RE: Prisoner; still a little perplexed that the dev's nerfed some of the prisoner threat characters and left him untouched. They must have a plan?!? Again, I like his passive. Cool for the game (call me a masochist). He's a five star character. If you don't like playing against him, don't play PVP. I don't have him and work strategies to beat him and whatever toons are by his side, It does require work, requires a lot of in-game tactics and critical choices. I go in ready to go second. Couple of my losses were when I assume I'll go first and try to get cute or just got sloppy with my selection, my bad, some losses are where I never got a turn.

2) # of attacks. That data is really telling. Thanks for sharing. The only other potential is that people are afraid to attack their teams? But why would 2 without a prisoner have less attacks? I use the blue Bat. Interested in hearing Spartons reaction to the data.

I had shared my stats before:
Attack wins: 94% (245/260)
Defense wins: 30% (75/253)

I essentially attack from my attack list and the variety there isn't what I would expect given Spartons comments and that it's "world wide live". For the record, i will attack any team, and I never cherry pick. I go against prisoners all day every day and still have 94% win rate.

Right now I have 2052 points. Haven't attacked for some time. So my points are the same since my list refresh.

On my list I have 9 people with points ranging from 1590-1727, with one person at 1997. The names are always the same 30 or so names. Sorry folks if you're there. Something is still not working Sparton.

All in all, PVP is pretty good. The rewards are worth it and many of the earlier bugs are squashed. It's optional. As the masses adapt, it may/will get tougher.

Cheers!

Nicko, you attacked me while I was writing this. I'm coming after you sucka! 😂😂🤡

[slauki]

okay gentleman, i appreciate your fairness, let's see how OP the gimp really is:

here are all numbers:



and here are my stats of my 2nd account (have no time to play both since the game is too time consuming):



Have no time for the discussion now, will be back later. Thanks nicko!

EDIT: MY defense contains a bluebat, that siege thing seems also pretty problematic to me if you don't have a prisoner, because it also takes away everything you need for defending. But is not as OP like prisoner passives.

What the commentators before me forgot:

If you fight a prisoner you need a lot of LUCK to beat him.
I don't avoid him when i estimate a pretty high win% for me. But many times i have to skip. it'n not him alone, it's him in combination with other toons, that will make him so OP.

and no way shaolinlondon and gmac got attacked so much less than other of us, since they give us good rewards with a beatable defense. why would anyone with a decent rooster and skill skip them? Only explanation is that the list is so bugged, that they are simply not shown very often. that's the only rational reason. The machmaking is broken, just a matter of time, that the devs realize this.

[Killhouse]

I'll add my stats, I lurk here enough and am happy to contribute if they'll help.

No prisoner

Finished Rank 13
Points 2713
Attack 91% 387/426
Defense 21% 51/245
Time spent, faaaar tooo much

Not sure how to add a screenshot so you'll have to trust these numbers.

[Nicko]

Going to bed but will try to incorporate new data tomorrow. Thanks to those who are sharing - hope it continues - and will be interested to hear more people's thoughts as well. I will say Sag, Silent Knight, Jofer16 etc will tell you I don't shy away from Prisoners either. Before the revenge limits Sag and I would revenge each other relentlessly. Of course I have a Prisoner which makes it easier.

So - does the fact that SilentKnights offense was within the current norm and not above it (though he said he cherry picks top teams) and CanyptianFit had such excellent stats without a Prisoner put a dent in the "overpowered Prisoner" argument?

[Nicko]

and no way shaolinlondon and gmac got attacked so much less than other of us, since they give us good rewards with a beatable defense. why would anyone with a decent rooster and skill skip them? Only explanation is that the list is so bugged, that they are simply not shown very often. that's the only rational reason. The machmaking is broken, just a matter of time, that the devs realize this.

Unless Sparton has a better explanation for this large disparity, at this point I would have to agree. Solid teams but no more solid than those that got attacked many more times.

[ToTameAGame]

- My real def ratio would be in reality under 25% with so many newbies repeatedly crushing on me 4 times in a row, yet nicko's I believe was always around 35% even on the limited beta.

1. Thanks for sharing the stats and they are more or less what I expected.

2. I would really love to see a day by day but that is not possible. The reason is that my defense in the beginning was close to 40% - newbies. But they learned really fast. After day two I could see the defense rate going down fast. I think with my 25% being attacked almost 350 times my defense is still good. Right now I have been attacked close to 80 times again and my defense sits at a sad 17%. Even without a Prisoner I knew which toons I'd like to have in my defense - I simply don't have them. I expect my defense ending up by the next reset at around 15%.

3. My rank was still in the top 100 but at some point I stopped putting effort into it. I gained 200ish points during the day (sometimes 300 when I refilled) and lost basically everything over night again. Too frustrating to spend anything on it. I mentioned it before I am only collecting Iron Coins for now and hope the system will get a liitle bit more rewarding.

4. The "bug" with the lists is indeed strange. And reading it ShaolinLondo never appeared in my attack lists. I saw Nicko a few times and Jofer once - gmac not at all.