April 2017 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Sparton_LOTB]

This is the main post to discuss general changes from the recent update.

You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post.

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We’re changing the Prisoner’s passive.

With that out of the way, let’s summarize the broad changes that we’re looking at doing in the next update:

• There are certain characters that have passives which counter a large swath of other characters before combat even starts (Prisoner, Angel of Pain, Death Dog, Warrior Troll)
• There are certain characters with extremely high usage rates in PVP, especially within certain combos, which despite some additions and changes continue to dominate and frustrate in the arena (Prisoner, Warrior Troll, Mummy Eddie, etc)
• There are many very rare characters which are not used frequently (if at all) not only in PVP but in PVE (Samurai Eddie, Visions Eddie, Warrior Child of the Damned, etc)
• Certain defensive status effects can be very problematic to play around or counter (Vanish, damage reduction shields, Void Shields, etc)

We believe that these changes will help to promote a healthier battle environment in the Arena. Previously we have attempted to achieve this balance without touching abilities by adding new Talismans, however this didn’t meaningfully change the kinds of team compositions people used. It became clear that anything new or different we added to counteract certain existing passives and skills would essentially just create a new batch of drastically stronger abilities that would overwhelm the old ones.

In short, we hope this set of changes will achieve 3 things:

1. Increase the diversity of viable characters in the Arena
2. Help pave the way for more interesting PVE content set for the coming months
3. Ensure each of the affected characters can shine within their niche (even if that means some characters won’t be the best answer for almost every encounter)

[Patrice-1201]

Does that mean that Viking will not get immunity for every Call to Arms? That is a huge nerf if that is the case... and with so few of them Biking around, pretty much unnecessary

[Sparton_LOTB]

Does that mean that Viking will not get immunity for every Call to Arms? That is a huge nerf if that is the case... and with so few of them Biking around, pretty much unnecessary

No, the immunity is still guaranteed. He will just cleanse himself instantly before giving himself immunity (in case he has Block Beneficial Effects on him) instead of giving himself a buff which tries to cleanse each turn with immunity.

[slauki]

man i'm really happy to see this here. will be a revolution i guess and a good and healthy one for the game at all, regardless the screams, that will come now .

but guys, if you don't touch grim reaper, who can kill two enemies in in one turn (even green ones) only with his standard ability, than you have the next most OP character everyone will use.
His slash is way to OP and i couldn't see changes in scaling or retriggering. Please test it if you don't belive me, he is out of control and this is very obvious.

I would also like to see some more changes to corrupt gunner rescuer, he is still to powerfull IMO. beside this things will be in order i belive.

SSD taunt % are also way too high, if mummy is reduces SSD should be reduced too.

But one problem will occour. Our defens holds in PVP will sink to 10% or even less. If the pointsystem continues to be that much of a punishment, there won't be a possibility to recover at all for the most players.

But i have to say you did some great changes so far in the last weeks, i love PVP and sacrifice and i'm looking forward to the things that are coming next.

[treeb0mbb]

I agree with Donslauki nerf SSD as well as people will just use him instead of mummy. But otherwise very nice changes hopefully this will shake things up a bit more and make PVP and PVE better overall.

[Shifter]

This means I will finally get a prisoner. Death dog on paper seems to be the next must have for pvp. change from siege to isolate looks to be pretty powerful.

[Sparton_LOTB]

any chance you guys will tune the RNG on Legendary souls and make them more legendary?

We do not plan on adjusting the composition of characters from the Legendary Souls at this time.

And also. I am still getting attacked a lot more than I am attacking...

Yeah, it looks like the matchmaking adjustments have worked quite well for some people, but for some others not as much. I think it might just be a matter of tuning the parameters we have, so I'll see if I can work out something better for the next update.

but guys, if you don't touch grim reaper, who can kill two enemies in in one turn (even green ones) only with his standard ability, than you have the next most OP character everyone will use.
His slash is way to OP and i couldn't see changes in scaling or retriggering. Please test it if you don't belive me, he is out of control and this is very obvious.

Grim Reaper Eddie can be a terror, but the crazy damage builds (typically all Holy Talismans) also means that he's really not all that durable, so he still has his answers. Definitely someone we'll be keeping an eye out for.

I would also like to see some more changes to corrupt gunner rescuer, he is still to powerfull IMO. beside this things will be in order i belive.

She (yes, she's a lady) does a lot of great defensive things, but we will have to see how things are after the tuning changes. She is intended to be a character with a lot of defensive utility, but she has plenty of counters that have already been discussed on the forums (permadeath other allies, block beneficial her and allies, remove the shield, etc), and we're adding more options with this tuning update for consistent removal of beneficial effects.

SSD taunt % are also way too high, if mummy is reduces SSD should be reduced too.

Unlike Mummy Eddie, Taunting is basically Sentinel Soulless Demon's only thing he really does (other than trying to stay alive even longer). We feel that the Eddie + Ally combinations of taunt not being as high plus much more consistent Immunity options should make answering strategies relying on taunting (and other CC) much more manageable to execute.

But one problem will occour. Our defens holds in PVP will sink to 10% or even less. If the pointsystem continues to be that much of a punishment, there won't be a possibility to recover at all for the most players.

As I noted previously, the VP of players actively engaging with PVP has gone up on average over the last few weeks (and even those who are still being attacked more than they're attacking seem to be rising more this week), so this is continuing trend as expected.

Additionally, we're hoping that more players will find more interesting defensive setups that could cause their defensive holds to be higher than what they're seeing now... but of course, for someone to win, someone else has to lose.

I wanted to suggest the team to check Rainmaker HP and DEF/MR, since is clearly a factor that keeps this cool character out of PVP...

His DEF/MR is intentionally low to account for the fact that his ATK/MAGIC is unusually high. Unlike many other Eddies, he really does demand a team built around him to maximize his usefulness. Realistically, most of a characters DEF/MR will usually come from talismans anyways, so we'd like to see what his usage is like after these tuning changes goes live.

So, just to be clear no siege first round, and then it triggers?

Specifically no Siege taking effect before either team has taken any action. Siege will still kick in after the enemy team takes a turn.

For example, this makes Siege no longer a counter to the Warrior Troll Shield passive. However, the Warrior Troll Guard All will still be affected (instead of it defending for it's full 2 turns, it'll be reduced at least once and last only 1 turn in most scenarios).

I would still consider more talisman slot chances, posted a while back to Sparton.

It seems like talisman slot changes can be a bit contentious as to what is better, so we will proceed with a bit more caution regarding this, but we can look into it more.

[PerthEddie]

Specifically no Siege taking effect before either team has taken any action. Siege will still kick in after the enemy team takes a turn.

For example, this makes Siege no longer a counter to the Warrior Troll Shield passive. However, the Warrior Troll Guard All will still be affected (instead of it defending for it's full 2 turns, it'll be reduced at least once and last only 1 turn in most scenarios)

Sorry Sparton it is early here and I am not fully awake yet so can you clarify this for me please?

If I go into Arena with my AoP against a Warrior troll and I go 1st his shield is up? If I go 2nd his shield is down? Or is it just Guard All that get's affected?

[Sidney]

Grim Reaper Eddie can be a terror, but the crazy damage builds (typically all Holy Talismans) also means that he's really not all that durable, so he still has his answers. Definitely someone we'll be keeping an eye out for.

Ok... I know my comment won't be very popular with some, but I'm glad that GRE will be left alone. He is a reward for completing the game and at 28 skill shards to get him maxed out, I think he deserves to be very strong. If he wasn't then why would people invest that many skill shards in him. As Sparton mentioned, he really isn't that durable... so sure he can do massive damage but provisions need to be made to try and make him more resilient in battle. Maybe I'm bias because I invested all the skill shards in him, but if he was neutered, there could be riots...

[Kaz_LOTB]

Does that mean that Viking will not get immunity for every Call to Arms? That is a huge nerf if that is the case... and with so few of them Biking around, pretty much unnecessary

Actually, Viking still gets the Immunity. He just doesn't have the Multi-Turn Cleanse (which he technically doesn't need since he has multi-turn immunity).

-Kaz