Sitting like a Log - Manipulation of the PvP Point System

[Shaolin85london]

Nicko thanks for this. I'm first rank atm but it's like despicable all attacks I made and submitted, I never make a step on. Here's my stats atm:

Attack 507
Defense 360

Like pointed out by Nicko, friend of mine is sitting within 50 ranks with 10 attacks made.

Is this logic or should we rename arena in sitting room?

[Jofer16]

Nicko thanks for this. I'm first rank atm but it's like despicable all attacks I made and submitted, I never make a step on. Here's my stats atm:

Attack 507
Defense 360

Like pointed out by Nicko, friend of mine is sitting within 50 ranks with 10 attacks made.

Is this logic or should we rename arena in sitting room?

For sure, like I said, if you're motivated you just feed everyone else. I really can't believe this was put in on purpose unless their sole plan was to kill the spirits of the most competitive subgroup of its player base and just let all the middle ranks go crazy attacking not knowing any better, while thinking they'll up overall participation even if it's at the expense of us elite players. Some deceptive stuff going on here it kinda feels like.

[Nicko]

Yeah it's super broke, and like I said earlier, punishes you for participating. My attacks are super high this week because I did a ton of expirimenting Saturday night and Sunday in live battles instead of testing defense around the new talismans and meta. And then last night wanted some more data for my analysis so went on a quick spree. I was down around rank 50 and shot up to rank 2 in a couple hours, but like you explain that just opens up the floodgates. If i wanted to remain efficient I'd play exactly as you are. Anyone with half a brain is going to drop their participation greatly because all you're doing with high participation is feeding other players at your own expense. If people want to grind up all you're doing is digging yourself a future hole to climb out of. The game should be about participation, not manipulating ratios, and hiding/cherry picking. It's either a cowards game, or a fools, depending if you manipulate ratios or grind for rank relentlessly. Should be about sound competition. Just cause I had fun and played around earlier in the week I have to pay for it with even more attacks all week, it's a losing battle.

Contemplating not really playing this weekend but haven't decided. I like games i can grind and play if I want, this discourages that now and you just create more work for yourself with little results. Only people actually going for rank burning ironite are probably just chasing a rank they've never achieved before, or are happy the highly competitive are losing interest. Look at Enti, damn near quit because he sees through this as well and already tasted eternal. While the cats are away the mice will play.

Thanks as usual Nicko for your sound analysis and input. You're a breath of fresh air around here. I can see why someone would suggest this from the dev side, it makes less motivated feed off those who are motivated, we're just burning each other's ironite feeding off each others competitiveness. Very demotivating to anyone that gets it.

Perfectly said Jofer. And interestingly - Enti now sits 34 points above me. He was hundreds of points earlier. All that work erased...

[Aristo4]

1:1 will never work with the current point system.

- the more you spend you're more likely to go backwards with so big defensive losses.
- the less you attack you're better off like nicko who has great defences historically (would work similar to me I guess, just not to that extent)

I'm at 110atk/100def atm usually going downwards...makes me regret attacking so much.
1:1 can work cutting down defensive losses, otherwise you'll see people playing less and less...its not worth it.

[Shaolin85london]

For sure, like I said, if you're motivated you just feed everyone else. I really can't believe this was put in on purpose unless their sole plan was to kill the spirits of the most competitive subgroup of its player base and just let all the middle ranks go crazy attacking not knowing any better, while thinking they'll up overall participation even if it's at the expense of us elite players. Some deceptive stuff going on here it kinda feels like.

I do agree with you. Only I can't understand the logic behind a system such that by who suppose to be the creator of arena and the mechanics working on. What's the worth for it?

Many things has been changed since beta but never the main essential one:

Mechanic related to the logic of pvp, who want to climb the ranks can't lose so many points because AI is terrible or due a fall in the point system. That has to be addressed once for all.

[Enti]

Well, your score isn't going down, but your rank is, and rank is all that is relevant for the top 250.

Not to mention the lack of Iron Coins. Obviously if you're sitting on a warchest that doesn't matter now (as we know many top players are), but eventually it'll run out if you're only making 100 battles a week, especially with things like Talismans, Eternity Soul Fragments, and more that'll be going through that store.

Ultimately, a curious strategy for getting rewards while minimizing effort, but you're paying for it in your own way. It'll be interesting to see how your standing is at the end of the week, as we obviously don't want to encourage not participating.

If only our rank is going down then erase VP requirement for the rewards so those between 25-250 can finally get their proper rewards.
Couple tuning upgrades earlier I read a post from you that globally the average of VP per player is increasing. Well, I never saw #1 having ~3k points mid-week.

I'm still #8 without spending a single ironite for pvp.

Perfectly said Jofer. And interestingly - Enti now sits 34 points above me. He was hundreds of points earlier. All that work erased...

All that work contains spending some automatically filled SoW when I'm bored xD I made 136 attacks, that's what I got from time + dailies + sacrifice + list clear bonus

[Nicko]

Nicko thanks for this. I'm first rank atm but it's like despicable all attacks I made and submitted, I never make a step on. Here's my stats atm:

Attack 507
Defense 360

Like pointed out by Nicko, friend of mine is sitting within 50 ranks with 10 attacks made.

Is this logic or should we rename arena in sitting room?

You've earned over 6000 points. You have less than 3000 of them left as I type this.

Now, we're all in the same boat. Kind of. Someone like Shaolin will muscle it out and climb on sheer determination and volume. But the top 25 crowd? They'd be better off sitting like me and putting the gas on at the end. Other than ShaolinLondo, no one else is more than 250 points ahead of me at this point. Still #10 - and I've attacked three times this afternoon. My goal this week is top 25 - we'll see as competition heats up if that's achievable.

I'm glad Sparton brought up Iron Coins - it's certainly an argument to grind and endure the ups and downs of rank. But I have enough Iron Coins at this point to last a long, long time. So for someone like me - and others who have accumulated a reserve of coins with little to spend them on - we play for the competition.

Sparton and the developers have always been great about being interactive with us - and that doesn't go unnoticed. So thanks guys - I like to say that every chance I get. It's huge. And Sparton said last week they were looking at ways to incorporate changes in the system. So it's coming.

But at the same time this is a pretty urgent issue - I shouldn't have stats saying the guy who has attacked 50 times is ranking higher than the most accomplished player on this board - when that player at one point this week had almost 400 points more than me - so hoping this thread illuminates just how pressing it is.

[Jofer16]

Glass half full, at least my 10k point record will stand with the current system

[Nicko]

All that work contains spending some automatically filled SoW when I'm bored xD I made 136 attacks, that's what I got from time + dailies + sacrifice + list clear bonus

Yeah, maybe a little dramatic But I think you get the point...

[Nicko]

Glass half full, at least my 10k point record will stand with the current system

Shaolin only has 7,000 to go. He started with 1900 and earned 5200 from the 500 attacks (assuming 95% win rate and 20 pt losses on failed attacks, 12 pts on wins), which would put him at 7100. He's at 3000 currently, which means he's lost 4100 of those 5200 points.

Assuming he keeps that 21.2% rate of point retention, and he needs 7,000 points, he'd only have to earn 33,000 points to beat your 10,000. Or 2,750 more attacks

Come on Shaolin - you can do it!