Suggestions for a better PVP point structure

[slauki]

Hey guys,

since this was buried under a lot of new posts, i wanted to bump it, and this discussion deserves it's own thread. We have seen quite bizarre
trends on the last week of PVP since we are punished the more we play, so some guys didn't play much and have excellent results (Hi Nicko :-) ).
The main reason is the bad point system which punishes us far more than we deserve along with thge current matchmaking.

Yesterday i was defending my top 10 in the arena and it was hard to gain points since for every 12 points i won, i lost 20. It was very annoying, i felt like someone was robbing my points, prolly
many of us feel the same.

We had a good discussion with sparton in the other thread, about the point system, and he gave us some parameters to think about.

He constructed a 5 archetypes of players and tried to look at the implication a changed point system will have. The main problem is that someone shouldn't be able to simply be number 1
even if his attack ratio and his defense ratio is bad. So it's a balancing act between gaining points and loosing if we want a fair and sane competition.

I took Spartons archetypes and added some more and tried to think about a better point system.

This are my results so far.



Explanation:

My main goal was that in the end of the week every archetyp has a positive result just by participating. So everyone would have more fun since he gaines at least something. This is hard to do with standard amount for every player.

So i manipulated the defense losses and the attack losses in a way, that makes sense i belive.

If we have a crappy defense because we are new to the game or bad RNG this is not our fault. So we are not able to "build better defenses", because we don't have the tools. That's why we need some protection there. Once our defense reaches <15% holdrate i would suggest to cut the defense losses from -12 to -8,5 . This is at least some kind of protection for these guys. If someone intentianally put in a bad defense to profit from it this won't work out for him, because the points won from holds are very sweet, he won't be able to compare with the bigguns.

Same could apply to attacks. If our attack ratio reaches <85% i would eliminate attack losses so that the guys are not punished just by trying.

The hardest part was to balance hyper good-o, the good and the lazy great.
i thought that all of them should be in a close range. In this particular example you see that thy hyper good-o has a tiny edge over the good and a slight edge against the great but lazy player. I fell this is okay since we compare 1000 vs 500 vs 250 attacks. So i think this is reasonable.

The great player with 500 attacks outmaneuver them all by a large amount. Not sure if his advantage is too big, but OTOH it should be really big when he wins 98% of time in 500 fights and holds 30% in 500 defenses... But we can argue here for sure, about some pros and cons.
The free player have okay results, but they cannot compare with the people who played much more. This should be reasonable, because who plays more and better should get more points at all.


Please be aware, that the attack win is an avarage result. To prevent bumhunting we should give people more points when attacking highranks and less ponits when attacking lowranks, to keep the competition fair for everyone.

This is just one example of a possible way to go, i'm sure this can be done better, but i think it would be a huge progress to what we have now...
We need positive motivation and not negative motivation if this should succeed.


If you want to try to make it better use this excel spreadsheet i wrote. It calculats itself you only have to put in points.
I'm very sure that the calculations are correct, but if someone could verify my results this would be even better.

You can download it here:
https://1drv.ms/x/s!AmnD5WIsUqymh6xFO9VWBojaj8Ho2Q


Another suggestion: If the devs want to revive the arena, we need much more than a better pointsystem. More rewards are needed to motivate the people i belive.
Add more ironite/gold/souls to the arena drops. Add more weekly rewards and more stuff in the store that we can buy with coins. Consider to let us purchase stuff more often, maybe twice per week.
And so on. There are many ways to improve PVP, so let's start right now. I feel if PVP dies, the game will die too.

As always i appreciate constructive critic and stuff, let me know what you guys think. This is not finished yet, but we can discuss it, since the devs seem to listen.

[Shaolin85london]

Yes, conducting every single archetype in a specific result, a rule system within a basic rule concept, d be the way to go imo. Is like a web or a rank inside the rank. I like that idea

[Eddie_PL]

It supposed to be free to play mobile phone game, fun game. When I'm seeing excel spreadsheets with that kind of calculations that makes me sick. Some of you guys are taking this game too serious, take a break.

[Nicko]

It supposed to be free to play mobile phone game, fun game. When I'm seeing excel spreadsheets with that kind of calculations that makes me sick. Some of you guys are taking this game too serious, take a break.

Hmmm...judging others from your own limited perspective isn't always an effective way to view the world...especially when you then tell them what to do...

He's a teacher - for him this IS fun

[Silentknight]

Hmmm...judging others from your own limited perspective isn't always an effective way to view the world...especially when you then tell them what to do...

He's a teacher - for him this IS fun

And greatly appreciated! Thx 4 time & effort slauki! Thx to Nicko & Sparton too!!!

[Jofer16]

Hmmm...judging others from your own limited perspective isn't always an effective way to view the world...especially when you then tell them what to do...

He's a teacher - for him this IS fun

Agreed, and nice to see the forums active today. Was a ghost town last night so I tried messing around haha. Everyone must have been burnt out from the day.

Nice post Slauki.

[Nicko]

Agreed, and nice to see the forums active today. Was a ghost town last night so I tried messing around haha. Everyone must have been burnt out from the day.

Nice post Slauki.

Yeah I rushed on out right after reset - and with the monsoon we had here in Chicago kind of wished I wouldn't have!

[Tritium]

I love this thread and your effort to help fix the point system's problems, slauki! That Eddie_PL guy just sounds like one of those insecure types who lashes out at others ─ don't listen to him or any of the other naysayers who might pop up here later on. Rather than complaining about the system, you're actively working to help make it better, which I find awesome. Your effort is greatly appreciated, slauki!

[Ian]

A well thought out post Slauki and I hope the devs take on board what you are saying. I'm glad the matchmaking was fixed because nobody wants to have 400 defended when they've only attacked 200 times. The other thing which may harm participation is the added bugs - for players like me who can only find time for around 200-250 matches per week, the motivation disappears when the game doesn't even work: Server errors when you win, talisman or toon passive effects not working, etc etc. It's become more lottery than ever.
I don't want to take the thread off topic but we must also realise that these bugs that make the arena less enjoyable also coincided with the matchmaking fix.

[Jofer16]

Yeah I rushed on out right after reset - and with the monsoon we had here in Chicago kind of wished I wouldn't have!

Been crazy and windy here lately too, think we're supposed to get snow tomorrow!