September 2017 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Sparton_LOTB]

Sparton, Are you guys taking into consideration all the complaints about trooper Eddie? Seriously, we've been waiting for him since the beginning of the game... Him specifically.

There are plenty of responses from both me and Kaz (primarily Kaz) in another thread on that subject.

Hey Sparton,

How about top10 def win rates from top 50 last week? How many use Astra?

It would be much harder for me to get that kind of info right now, so that's not something I can answer at this time (I also don't know if I have that level of detail I can dredge up without getting a query from a programmer, and those guys are super busy right now).

Still, if the top players who user her have the best win rates, they'd have to have like.... 6x better win rates than everyone else in the leaderboard that uses her consider how low her average defense win rate is, which seems really unlikely. We know people who are at the absolute top of the leaderboard can only be there with good hold rates, but I while she can be great in the right hands with the right Talismans, I doubt there's that much of a discrepancy.

She is a lv 4 that removes buffs AND stuns (apparently with 100% chance) with basic attack. Basic attack is also AoE, and true damage btw. Mandatory 3 purples so she can pack immortality too... CG is a 5 and got nerfed to oblivion for much less than that.... come on, that toon is too strong as it is.

I don't like nerfs, but some toons are released with too much advantage compared to others, and so makes too much of a difference sometimes, like wrath and prisoner before him. Astra is on that category as well.

(oh, she also has a passive that prevents marks, doom and curse...)

We're going to keep an eye on her, but there's already some bug fixes we know we're shipping with the next update that mitigate some of her power (certain passives being flagged wrong, allowing her to stun more often), and there's other bug fixes we're needing to investigate too. In addition, there's other things that'll be released soon that will also speak to countering some of what she does...

[Dank Brew]

There are plenty of responses from both me and Kaz (primarily Kaz) in another thread on that subject.

You obviously know I'm following that thread, and that does not answer my question at all.

One more time, I'll make it a multiple choice answer to make it easier.

Q: Are the complaints being taken into consideration?

A: "Yes, we are considering a change in our original plans."

B: "No, we are not considering a change in our original plans."

[Kaz_LOTB]

You obviously know I'm following that thread, and that does not answer my question at all.

One more time, I'll make it a multiple choice answer to make it easier.

Q: Are the complaints being taken into consideration?

A: "Yes, we are considering a change in our original plans."

B: "No, we are not considering a change in our original plans."

The answer, in this case is C: "We will present the "full" plan with all relevant details when the feature is finally announced."

The plan will generally be the same direction as mentioned in prior threads, but there are some details around dupe control that will be sorted out and more presentable by then, which largely affects how soon and in what fashion you can expect to choose your characters from those souls.

-Kaz

[Dank Brew]

The answer, in this case is C: "We will present the "full" plan with all relevant details when the feature is finally announced."

The plan will generally be the same direction as mentioned in prior threads, but there are some details around dupe control that will be sorted out and more presentable by then, which largely affects how soon and in what fashion you can expect to choose your characters from those souls.

-Kaz

Better than Spartons reply... Thanks... Maybe I should just stay away from the forums for a while to avoid unnecessary anger towards the team.

[ovy]

Hi gmac,

With all due respect, I don't know how you can make the argument about defenses and win rates when the Wrath is literally everywhere right now. Or DaveMurray talking about purple beast as if the other two purple beasts weren't more prevalent.

I don't have Wrath and I use purple val as a substitute. You do have him. If I thought the chances of me getting either of them in the future were the same, I'd swap places in a heartbeat. The guy is just really effin strong.

But do I complain and ask for a nerf? No, I just deal with it. In fact, since he started showing up PvP is the most fun it's been in ages. Revamped my whole offense, had to think long and hard about who to shard and talismans, etc. That's a good thing.

Purple val too requires some changes. You can't just show up with the same ol team, pile on the beneficials and expect an easy win. But she's very beatable, like Sparton says. I'm sure you know that.

As for 5 star vs four, that's not really an argument in this game. There are other 4 stars better than most 5 stars: Gunner Dog, Navigator, SSD, Harpy, WUR, GCR are all out there in numbers, or in the old days AoF and Red Pyro. My guess is they wanted to keep all Valkyries the same rather than represent their value accurately.

My 2 cents,
ovy

Hey Sparton,

How about top10 def win rates from top 50 last week? How many use Astra?

She is a lv 4 that removes buffs AND stuns (apparently with 100% chance) with basic attack. Basic attack is also AoE, and true damage btw. Mandatory 3 purples so she can pack immortality too... CG is a 5 and got nerfed to oblivion for much less than that.... come on, that toon is too strong as it is.

I don't like nerfs, but some toons are released with too much advantage compared to others, and so makes too much of a difference sometimes, like wrath and prisoner before him. Astra is on that category as well.

(oh, she also has a passive that prevents marks, doom and curse...)

cheers
gmac

[gmac]

Hi gmac,

With all due respect, I don't know how you can make the argument about defenses and win rates when the Wrath is literally everywhere right now. Or DaveMurray talking about purple beast as if the other two purple beasts weren't more prevalent.

I don't have Wrath and I use purple val as a substitute. You do have him. If I thought the chances of me getting either of them in the future were the same, I'd swap places in a heartbeat. The guy is just really effin strong.

But do I complain and ask for a nerf? No, I just deal with it. In fact, since he started showing up PvP is the most fun it's been in ages. Revamped my whole offense, had to think long and hard about who to shard and talismans, etc. That's a good thing.

Purple val too requires some changes. You can't just show up with the same ol team, pile on the beneficials and expect an easy win. But she's very beatable, like Sparton says. I'm sure you know that.

As for 5 star vs four, that's not really an argument in this game. There are other 4 stars better than most 5 stars: Gunner Dog, Navigator, SSD, Harpy, WUR, GCR are all out there in numbers, or in the old days AoF and Red Pyro. My guess is they wanted to keep all Valkyries the same rather than represent their value accurately.

My 2 cents,
ovy

Hey Ovy,

I'd trade my Wrath for your Astra. I believe she is more powerful then he is, plus you get 25% chance to get him on each Eternal soul and, as for Astra, you need to be really lucky.

90 events souls brought me ZERO of those Valkyries, not sure I'll ever land her, even she being a lv 4.

I do think lv5 toons should be more powerful then lv 4 btw, they more rare and should make more of a different imo.

Maybe what is wrong with her is that she is stunning more than she should... they are gonna fix that as Sparton pointed out, we'll see.

I don't like to call out nerfs, but sometimes one toon makes too much of a difference. Like during old Prisoner days, everyone that got Eternal since BETA had him until I got my first, and that was after the nerf. (maybe killhouse did not have him of the very first week of BETA as well, not sure).

And I have Wrath and called a nerf on him when he was removing beneficial effects with 75% chance. That was ridiculous.

Not calling a nerf because I don't have her, I'd do it anyways, and I don't need her to win, I got eternal last week, also I beat teams with her all the time too, that is also not an issue...

I just think she is too much compared to others. And definitely does an impact on defense numbers.

cheers
gmac

[ovy]

Hey Ovy,

I'd trade my Wrath for your Astra. I believe she is more powerful then he is, plus you get 25% chance to get him on each Eternal soul and, as for Astra, you need to be really lucky.

Gmac -- I agree with the second part, hence the qualifier, but I don't agree with the first. The Wrath is significantly stronger, that power move is typically how I lose and removing *all* beneficials including immunity is a big deal.

I do think lv5 toons should be more powerful then lv 4 btw, they more rare and should make more of a different imo.

As I mentioned, that's just not the case in this game and there are significant deviations. The four stars I mentioned are a big deal, whereas Shaman, the CotD's and PDK are nowhere to be seen. And she is rare so as you say she should make a difference. And (see Sparton) I believe you are over-estimating her impact on defences particularly compared to Wrath.

[gmac]

Gmac -- I agree with the second part, hence the qualifier, but I don't agree with the first. The Wrath is significantly stronger, that power move is typically how I lose and removing *all* beneficials including immunity is a big deal.


As I mentioned, that's just not the case in this game and there are significant deviations. The four stars I mentioned are a big deal, whereas Shaman, the CotD's and PDK are nowhere to be seen. And she is rare so as you say she should make a difference. And (see Sparton) I believe you are over-estimating her impact on defences particularly compared to Wrath.

Hey!

I do think the true damage on basic attack maybe why I'd prefer her over Wrath, oh, and plus she stuns everybody... but I don't have her and you don't have Wrath so, maybe we just want what we don't have... lol

Sparton did not check the numbers... maybe I'm wrong, who knows... but I find her more difficult to deal than Wrath, again I have Wrath, so I'm used to that toon, maybe that also explains why I perceive things this way.

As 4 x 5 I think as an example ACoTD should be more powerful then Astra, not the case as you said, I just believe it should be.

What I really wish is that they checked toons prior to release, if Astra was working properly, maybe we wouldn't be talking about nerfs. Like what happened to Wrath when he was released too.

Thanks for chatting man!
gmac

[calizario]

I wanted an answer from any of the Dev's about this discussion of Valkyrie Purple.

At some time in a group there was a discussion about the acc up of the defense, in several battles already I caught opponents loaded with buffs and not stunn anyone. In contrast to Valquira's opponents' match at least two will sleep a little. Same thing I notice in the Undead Rescue (red buzz) it's hard to take away from the adversaries' flu.

My question .. Does the AI of defense take any more percentage of Accuricy than attack?

[Silentknight]

Better than Spartons reply... Thanks... Maybe I should just stay away from the forums for a while to avoid unnecessary anger towards the team.

Maybe the 'team' should learn 2 keep their mouths shut!