Off-topic posts and general negativity

[Askora]

Reading through the forum lately and sometimes it seems like the spambots would be better.

Posts being moved to a new thread that is relevant to the complaints doesn't mean the topic is being buried. If they really were burying it, they could just delete the posts they didn't like. My impression is they give us a lot of leeway, but when it gets too far out of hand they step in.

All the complaints about the events get old too. Did they mess up the data with this last one? Yes. For those who sent a support ticket and got it resolved, did it ruin the game because you didn't have the gold immediately after the sacrifice? Highly doubtful, just a little inconvenience.

People calling the dream of ironite a cash grab was just silly. I ended the week with more ironite than I started and a guaranteed skill shard a day. Seems like a win to me. How is that a cash grab? Because you couldn't buy out the store with what was earned. That's not the way it works.

My guess is that a lot of the complaints stem from overspending on an event and not getting what you wanted. Should they reveal the odds? Yes, or at least give a reason for not doing so. We already know they're low, knowing them won't change them and most likely people would still complain about it. Write Apple, continue to question NF, but that doesn't require hijacking threads and being a blemish on the community.

Most of the events are designed to deplete one resource or another. That's the way it works. It's why some of those are available for real money in the store. To entice you and thereby make money for NF so they can go on another day. But, overall the game is very playable for minimum or no investment so I think they've done an excellent job on balancing the freemium play.

Hopefully the last major update fixed a bug that was causing many of the issues, and the subsequent hotfix has seemed to not bring many new issues and only fixed skills. Keep optimistic. The tour will ideally be a catalyst for many of the new features.

[Amarthir]

Personally, I'm really looking forward to the Assassin Hellhound event. If it's true that you'll be able to collect Lilith soul fragments then I'm sure that will make alot of people really happy. However I'm sure there will be those players who feel like this is another P2W event when, realistically, the entire game is pretty free to play if you don't waste your ironite on buying souls.

As for the recent load of negativity, some of it is justified, alot of it isn't. But most of the things people are upset about aren't really a big deal in my opinion, this current event is pretty boring but it's not like you're forced to participate, this is just about making some extra gold and if you have a castle's worth of it, you can buy yourself some talismans. The Dream of Ironite was pretty neat, it's not what I expected but it's an extra sum of Ironite which is better than no ironite.

[Reeb99]

Well said, both of you. I really liked the daily skill shards last week. I don't get the complaints about the ironite and sacrifice events, either. The bugs introduced last week seem to be fixed. If any others are left, people should list them so they can be fixed.

I'm not saying there aren't bugs, but in general they seem to get fixed in a timely manor.

[Askora]

Exactly! I'm not close to a vortex, so not participating much in this one. Hellhound will be in LoL based on us getting fragments of Lilith souls. People will probably complain that the drops for those are too low. I'm assuming they won't fall like rain. Lilith souls are the long term goal and might take a while to get enough to claim one. I expect the hellhound will be like the others and it's very easy to usually claim 3 event souls with almost zero investment.

[JJJ428]

I think a lot of it is just people have reached their limit and they are unjustifiable attacking everything now. I think a lot of it is over reactions and Askora pointed it out the best while this current event had some hiccups it was far from the end of the world. I also thought the dream of ironite was a great event as well. One thing a lot of players have issues with it is the devs need to make events that please beginners and end game players alike so not every event can deliver tons of things that take 1000 battles to win. There were pieces in the dream event that were perfect for beginners, getting 40 ironite a day basically doing what people always do without much difficulty. And also they had some nice high level items that if you already had a ton of ironite could have been worth investing in. Same thing for this event if you are close to a vortex fill or have tons of gold lying around feel free to participate.

The one complaint I have seen a lot that makes no sense is people constantly complaining this is a pay to win game and in my experience this couldn't be further from the truth. I have made two ironite purchases and one talismans purchase the entire time of playing this game and honestly I could take those purchases back and it wouldn't set me back much at all. I feel I have just about everything in this game and compete at a semi high level. That be saying said it may not be a pay to win but if not it can certainly be a grind to win game. I do put the time in to get as far as I have and not have to pay for it. Perhaps where the disconnect comes from people are not willing to put the time in or can't (I understand people have lives) so they see the only way to compete is to pay up but to me does not make it pay to win. Its just pay if you do not have the time and want things quicker. Which to me is fine and a perfectly acceptable business model. I have heard the horror stories out there about true play to win games and thankfully that's not the situation we have here.

The two points that are getting a lot of attention and well deserved is the not disclosing of odds and the bugs. The not disclosing of outs has just gotten crazy at this point. I feel they are quite transparent and open about a lot of things but ever since the news hit about being required to display odds they have been too quiet. I have yet to understand what's the big deal just disclose them already and be done with it. You can try and argue it isn't a problem that they are not disclosing it but it my understanding that the latest update got hung up by apple because of that very reason they are not complying with actual rules. Those rules should be followed and will quiet down a lot of people.

Secondly the bugs, while I get it bugs happen and you can't plan for every possible combination of effects and I feel some people could let a lot of that slide, however there always seems to be some very glaring ones that seem almost impossible to be missed. As most of us know by now the AOF glitch was suppose to be fixed MONTHS ago, and at the last second they realized it wasn't and I could have sworn we were told they had someone specifically working on that issue and it still has not been resolved. Its gone on for so long I do not even see people complaining about it any more. Also for me the point of golden buffs not being reduced in time. This was mentioned two months ago and was missed and we have since had another update and its still not corrected. To me if you are going to announce bugs you are correcting and are not able to in time for the current fix it better be fixed by the next update.

I think things like these are not too much to ask, the problem is these things are not being address and to lash out people are picking apart every little thing and it isn't warranted. I feel bad for the devs some time its like every little thing they do gets ripped apart by people on the forums and because they do their best to please the large spectrum of players it causes a lot of very local ones to get quite pissed off.

[hold]

If a company starts to use language to prey on the addiction of gamblers without disclosing the odds (as mandatory by Apple now) I assume foul play. Until this company does proof me wrong I will continue calling it out. The fanboys can blow sugar up the dev's arses as long as they want but in just this one case I am in the right. I said it before that I am very happy to be the arsehole here but crawling up the butts of the devs has gotten us nowhere.

If the gamblers want to continue gambling - up to them. But I want to know what I am up against. It's really really simple.

I also mentioned how much I enjoyed the first half of 2017 - it wasn't bug free at all but there was progress. Real progress and not just more chars and talismans that brought even more bug and weird shit. I need to crawl the forum but Sparton once said that with every char or addition the meta is getting more complicated. Fine - I get that - I believe that - for FFS sort out the long standing bugs first before you make the mess even bigger. It's not rocket sience.

What brings me back to the bugs. If major bugs with updates would be the exception - everybody does make mistakes and we are all human - I wouldn't complain at all. The sad truth is that introducing major new bugs with updates is the norm. I really don't get how people can defend this any longer - but I also don't have to get it but I also won't be silent about it.

My main points are and still haven't changed:
- disclose the drop rates
- deliver an update that is not a mess / rushed / untested -> implement some sort of QA

We are on the same page wanting a better game. But sitting back and hoping clearly hasn't worked.

P.S: And there is not much to defend about an event where you end up with less of the ressource you need by taking part of it. I get it - no major deal - just don't participate. What I do question in this case - is there any thought spent or are just random numbers made up in general?

P.P.S: To drain the ironite in one event and advertise it to trigger the gambler's addiction (with shit undisclosed odds) and offer cool shit for ironite in the next one to trigger the addiction again is (as somebody else called it) a recipe for milking the players. There is for example a reason in Europe to protect from gambling. Did you know that Belgium is discussing a law to forbid games with loot boxes entirely? It's not just about: "you don't have to take part" - it's also a psychological game to grab money from the psychological week - again foul play without disclosing the adds. Good for you if you don't fall for it - be happy (I'm one of those lucky mofos as well) - but I will stand up for the one's with that addiction to let them know at least the odds. There is one thing I hate by heart: Exploiting people!

P.P.P.S: I really don't like Apple and everything they stand for (walled gardens and exploiting people themselves) but I have huge respect for them to put the foot down on the monkey business with those sorts of games that has been going on way too long.

P.P.P.P.S: I would even buy shit once in a while (30 day ironite I like) but I will only do it if the devs start to play nice and deliver quality. I'm not supporting foul play and a stream of bugs - no f*cking way ...

[Askora]

I don't think anyone has a problem with people calling them out on the odds. It's more a matter of how. An event thread should be info relevant to the event. Update threads relevant to updates. The forum should be constructive and it's far more useful when it's utilized properly. By all means post your gripes, but try to stick with the thread topic.

Every freemium game is based on having some resource you need that is either difficult or impossible to grind for. Despite all the complaints, this game is actually relatively generous compared to a lot of the other games I've seen. Other than disclosing the odds, fixing bugs and new content what do you think would improve the game? The souls are a loot box by nature, do you want guaranteed characters for a premium price? Pay to win! Give away enough resources to buy out the store? Quick way to bankruptcy!

As I've stated I'm willing to see how the logic bug fix plays out. I think it may be one of the core improvements that makes future updates far less bug-prone The new content, I'm hoping starts soon with the tour approaching.

[hold]

... this game is actually relatively generous compared to a lot of the other games I've seen.

I said it on the other thread: To be less wrong than others doesn't make you right! To be honest: I'd rather pay 30 (or X) Euro for a game and have it instead of the constant milking the players. I'm glad that companies and governments are cracking down on those scams. I rather pay 5 Euro for every new world and so on ... but that is my personal opinion - I know others think different.

Other than disclosing the odds, fixing bugs and new content what do you think would improve the game?

Please read that out loud but slowly ...

[kkkreg5]

At this point, I really don't care about new content. I would much rather NF focus on fixing the constant bugs. Was the base code really that fucked that it has NF basically chasing their tails to fix them? If it was, then shut it down, fix them ALL and relaunch. We are fast approaching the 2 year anniversary and the big European tour. I wouldn't mind the break from the game. I think I would be ready and energized! I still wouldn't play PVP or BNW, but just to have no glitches would be great!

I think the odds are somewhat skewed. They are constantly changing that they can't disclose them without completely destroying the model. I would think this is the reason why some get one long sought after character, only to have him/her appear again right after.

[Askora]

Except you're arguing against everything, even if the odds were disclosed you make it out to be that's not enough for that aspect. If you're unhappy with the way the revenue stream is made for the game, my thoughts are: Don't play it and choose one that has a revenue model you like, write your own, or contact your local representative and tell them you want it banned where you're at.

Content is coming, maybe not the pace you want but impatience won't change that.

Bugs are there and don't expect them to ever be completely gone. I'm sure you've never had to upgrade your phone or pc because there was a bug to be patched. Only the simplest of programs can be guaranteed to be bug free. The ones that prevent play or crash the game are the logical priorities. I've seen a couple new ones that I haven't mentioned because I've only seen it happen once for one of them and the other because I'm not sure whether I missed something. I'd rather not have the devs chasing something that is nearly impossible to reproduce when they could better utilize that time.

Just for the record, the issues I've seen recently in PvP are:

1) Killed assassin Lilith while she had perfect immunity. She immediately revived and the team was full healed.
2) Visions uses his fury and stuns my gunner with Angel talis, she stays stunned on my turn.
3) Astra uses her power move. Perfect corruption, heal block and permadeath two gunners on my team with Angel talis. My turn and no cleanse, both still heal blocked and permadeath-ed.