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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sponholz View Post
    So this basically means that average players that sometimes can have a chance on the Arena against most teams, will be owned even more against the teams with relics? since the talis will be "massively buffed" for those with Relics, raising the GAP even more.

    Man each time I think about the Relics system, I have even more sure they are a gap system, designed to make players spend lots of refills to grind then out.



    I honestly can't imagine that some of you are liking this?! maybe because you have a ton of IC hoarded so you can (like Bradata) buy then all (and lvl a few after).

    Sorry mate, I play this game much more then I should, and I still have a LOT of chars to shard/tali up. And now, Relics comes around.

    This will be the nail on the coffin of serious PvP for a LOT of players.

    All I can say to the hoarders, Have fun alone at the top, I can assure you the Arena will be less challenging and boring in no time. (Unless you have fun on only fighting the same 5~10 players every single time, cause I don't think there will be that many players outside Slauki, Bradata, and a few others willing to spend the time to grind this out in the long-term, they will quit once they realize that they can't compete with some regarding play time).

    Even as my replies are a little salty, they are not rant replies, I'm just saying this is bad for the game atm. Unless the "other forms of getting IC" are really worth it.

    ... Ed.
    It's also a diversion from releasing real new content.

    "Hmmm ... what to do to keep the plebs busy? I got it ... overprized new shit that buffs some stuff ... and don't forget those chars we haven't got in green/blue/red/purple/yellow yet ... make an event to get them that drains a lot of ironite and tell the idiots double chance! YES double - 0.5% or 1% doesn't matter - the suckers still won't get anything out of it"

  2. #32
    Senior Member slauki's Avatar
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    sponholz, thanks for your clear words, i agree on the pvp aspect. relicts are a great longterm motivation for hopefully challenging pve elements. the problem is we don't have those right now.
    i really like them overall, they are just extremly bad for pvp. arena should stay competitive for EVERY player not only for the top 25 guys. i had 30k coins, and well this will give me a huge advantage over 95% of all players. since i'm a longterm player who has enough chars, talis and skillshards i really don't need another advantage vs those poor guys. i'm almost ashamed fighting vs those who have no relicts, this feels like cheating.

    and soon we sould get a lot of new players because of the tour start, and for them pvp will be a source of endless frustration i fear..and who is so dumb to try to grind this out??? it's impossible if you are not playing from day one.

    so overall i like the longterm goal and i'm okay with waiting a few months to max em all, but this crap has to stay out of the arena imo...

    and man i love your new signature

    i already called 666-NOLIFE but the prices are still a bit high for me
    Last edited by slauki; 03-09-2018 at 02:36 PM.


    What you see is not real, those who know will not tell
    All is lost sold your souls to this brave new world


  3. #33
    Senior Member Sponholz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slauki View Post
    ... Slauki's reply ...

    so overall i like the longterm goal and i'm okay with waiting a few months to max em all, but this crap has to stay out of the arena imo...

    and man i love your new signature

    i already called 666-NOLIFE but the prices are still a bit high for me

    LOL man, that made my day, honestly! (Thanks for that. glad you liked my sig , And I called then too, but I was too broke that even my call got dismissed... ).

    And please don't get me wrong, I have never (not that I can remember honestly) talked about Relics outside the Arena, they are an AMAZING addition to the game for PvE purposes. Yes it could take long to farm ICs for then, but the PvE difficulty will be the same, once you get the relics you need, could take a week for some, a month for others, the PvE difficulty would still be the same, and you will the able to feel the GAP getting closer each time you buy/lvl a Relic.


    ... Ed.
    Last edited by Sponholz; 03-09-2018 at 02:55 PM.
    Gone like the wind at 299,792,458 m/s , now I'm just "An experience of seeing someone or something in a dream or trance, or as a supernatural apparition."
    Gonna dream about Britney while smacking Thanos in the face. Just like Katy kissed a girl and she liked, I kissed a Frog and I puked, well at least I tried, Oh what a bunch of Cool Guys we are!!!
    That's all folks, Chimichanga's ready, cya later and bon appetit!

  4. #34
    Developer Kaz_LOTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicko View Post
    That will only work if there’s an additional source of hours in the day
    There are some features to help alleviate the amount of time /effort required coming pretty soon. In addition, the Gauntlet has a very different pace than the Arena, so you will be able to earn a good amount of Iron Coins at a faster overall rate than the Arena. The challenge of the Gauntlet is quite different than the Arena though and will be much less about grinding and more about strategic and smart use of the units you have.

    In terms of creating a gap, that is true. What will happen is people who are sitting on a bunch of ic and want to buy all the relics will get an immediate benefit for their resources. This does mean however, they are much more likely to face off against other players doing the same and less likely to come across weaker targets as the divisions will naturally stratify overtime based on who is actively playing the Arena and buying relics and who is not. In the end, the result should be that you'll basically will be facing off against other people at your level so casually engaged arena users will have a lower chance of meeting up with the top tier players over time and those who have relics will be evenly matched.

    This does make the top end of the arena more competitive and in order to make that effort worth it, we have some updates coming to the Arena rewards that should hopefully make it very appealing to place in the top divisions. Also as already mentioned, relics apply to more than just PvP. Many players will now have a means to advance their PvE teams elsewhere in the game to make the tackling of challenging content more manageable.

    Finally, what Relics allows us to do, which isn't immediately evident, is add new worlds and content to the game that can be appropriately challenging for early, mid-tier, and late game players. With the current stat ceiling, we don't have much room to grow, so Relics will allow us to create a better gradation of difficulty with upcoming content.

    In any case, we'll keep an eye on how things go and certainly adjust any values or prices as needed based on the data we're seeing and user feedback.

    -Kaz

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by slauki View Post
    i really like them overall, they are just extremly bad for pvp. arena should stay competitive for EVERY player not only for the top 25 guys. i had 30k coins, and well this will give me a huge advantage over 95% of all players. since i'm a longterm player who has enough chars, talis and skillshards i really don't need another advantage vs those poor guys. i'm almost ashamed fighting vs those who have no relicts, this feels like cheating.
    And then you have a longterm player like me with about 200 iron coins in the bank

    I think there are a lot of features coming that will help once they are all rolled out. The problem is that they are all just puzzle pieces floating in the ether at this point, and putting the relics piece on the board first could swing the balance of the game (and specifically arena) towards long term hardcore players even more than it already is. This would be less of a problem if grinding for Iron Coins in the Arena was the main focus, however most people place their time/focus on making sure that their troopers get their badges. Grinding troopers and iron coins at the same time wouldn't be a problem if Gauntlet was released. Grinding troopers in general wouldn't be an issue if there was a way to simulate battles that you've already won. Now you start to see all of the puzzle pieces that need to fit together to make it work.

    There seem to be a lot of great features incoming and I think it will all balance out in the end. It's nice that there will be a PvE way to get Iron Coins & I appreciate the dev team taking the time to get it right. Climbing in PvP just might be a bit frustrating for some until then...

  6. #36
    Senior Member tex-0775's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB View Post
    There are some features to help alleviate the amount of time /effort required coming pretty soon. In addition, the Gauntlet has a very different pace than the Arena, so you will be able to earn a good amount of Iron Coins at a faster overall rate than the Arena. The challenge of the Gauntlet is quite different than the Arena though and will be much less about grinding and more about strategic and smart use of the units you have
    This could once again give the select few beta-testers a huge advantage, i mean they will come out with a s***load of iron coins/relics and the rest of us will once again have to play catchup for a long time. Or are you changing things this time, so the reward for playing the beta is, .....playing the beta?

    tex
    Last edited by tex-0775; 03-09-2018 at 07:12 PM.
    \,,/ - - \,,/ ---------"There can be Önly Öne"--------- \,,/ - - \,,/

  7. #37
    Senior Member Sponholz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB View Post
    There are some features to help alleviate the amount of time /effort required coming pretty soon. In addition, the Gauntlet has a very different pace than the Arena, so you will be able to earn a good amount of Iron Coins at a faster overall rate than the Arena. The challenge of the Gauntlet is quite different than the Arena though and will be much less about grinding and more about strategic and smart use of the units you have.

    In terms of creating a gap, that is true. What will happen is people who are sitting on a bunch of ic and want to buy all the relics will get an immediate benefit for their resources. This does mean however, they are much more likely to face off against other players doing the same and less likely to come across weaker targets as the divisions will naturally stratify overtime based on who is actively playing the Arena and buying relics and who is not. In the end, the result should be that you'll basically will be facing off against other people at your level so casually engaged arena users will have a lower chance of meeting up with the top tier players over time and those who have relics will be evenly matched.

    This does make the top end of the arena more competitive and in order to make that effort worth it, we have some updates coming to the Arena rewards that should hopefully make it very appealing to place in the top divisions. Also as already mentioned, relics apply to more than just PvP. Many players will now have a means to advance their PvE teams elsewhere in the game to make the tackling of challenging content more manageable.

    Finally, what Relics allows us to do, which isn't immediately evident, is add new worlds and content to the game that can be appropriately challenging for early, mid-tier, and late game players. With the current stat ceiling, we don't have much room to grow, so Relics will allow us to create a better gradation of difficulty with upcoming content.

    In any case, we'll keep an eye on how things go and certainly adjust any values or prices as needed based on the data we're seeing and user feedback.

    -Kaz

    Appreciate the time on replying Kaz.

    I will try and be quick this time.

    Arena as it is right now, the matchmaking is not optimized for relics yet, and I haven't heard any news regarding this.

    Arena Events: You have to win, and 300 Wins is the basic goal if you want to have the main rewards the event has to offer (maybe 400 in some events). And WINS only, so pardon me for my question, but are you sure that to get 400 wins, I won't be matched with the hardcore players with a lot of IC invested on Relics?

    In all honesty the PvP side-effect of the Relics, is a really, really long-term commitment if you want to catch-up to the top players. (I know Gauntlet is coming and all, but its still a lot of commitment).

    Still taking Arena events as example, people will lose a lot of battles, cause once they start to raise on the rankings they will be faced against the Relic boosted teams, and will have to lose quite a few matches so they can be matched with the teams of the same level.

    People will start to feel frustrated cause they will be losing the most precious resource of the world right now, TIME.

    I don't want to make LotB another Job I have. And so far you at NF are doing NOTHING to alleviate the need of grind. (Not offending anyone here, but truth must be told).

    Nothing about the odds on Souls,
    Nothing about the Trooper grind,
    Nothing about new Content (Relics are not new content, they are just another Arena Store item ATM).

    And on top of the boring and exhaustive Trooper grind, you made Relics available on a manner that don't even involve Troopers, so all you did atm: "Relic up the Grind skill of the game. almost maxed lvl btw".

    Of couse PvE wise Relics are a breath of fresh air. Really made me want to farm again, I just wish that this could be made at my own pace without the feeling of every second that pass I an getting behind, and behind others, PvP wise.




    Finally, let me express this again. All I am talking here are concerns for the future of the game.




    I have faith that in the end, when ALL new promised content are available, things will even out and you will be able to catch in terms of Relic level. but this will take a LONG time, taking NF's retrospective timeline on delivering new content. (Again just facts here, Trooper Eddie was featured in the launch trailer of the game, and look at the time that have passed for us to finally see him in the game).

    ... Ed.
    Last edited by Sponholz; 03-09-2018 at 07:29 PM. Reason: Typo as usual.
    Gone like the wind at 299,792,458 m/s , now I'm just "An experience of seeing someone or something in a dream or trance, or as a supernatural apparition."
    Gonna dream about Britney while smacking Thanos in the face. Just like Katy kissed a girl and she liked, I kissed a Frog and I puked, well at least I tried, Oh what a bunch of Cool Guys we are!!!
    That's all folks, Chimichanga's ready, cya later and bon appetit!

  8. #38
    Senior Member Nicko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradata View Post
    Wow, he is alive! And right on the spot again! I agree, not all of us are Gmac or Jofer with so many wins under their belts! Saw the math Spon did... 200 000 IC + oh boy!
    Yeah - RL has been pretty demanding so I’ve been busy - and PvP doesn’t have the same draw after doing it for so long - but patiently waiting for Gauntlet
    Nicko-0517

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by tex-0775 View Post
    This could once again give the select few beta-testers a huge advantage, i mean they will come out with a s***load of iron coins/relics and the rest of us will once again have to play catchup for a long time. Or are you changing things this time, so the reward for playing the beta is, .....playing the beta?
    The Gauntlet beta's rewards will not be non-existent, but they'll certainly be different in the beta compared to when the feature globally launches (or at least different when the beta first starts). Getting to the higher grades within the Gauntlet will be extremely challenging, as we definitely don't want to give beta players as huge advantage... but we also want it to be worth the time and effort so people try to push the limits of the feature in the beta! As such, we'll be finding a balance between being worth spending the time/Sands of War, and not giving a huge advantage to people part of the beta test.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Yup's Avatar
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    Addition of relics just makes it all seem like hamsters on a wheel....

    start making decent headway.. and BAM.. a huge advantage is provided to someone that has been playing for even a month longer. An advantage I'll need 4 times as long to even reach and by that time.. I still won't be caught up. Basically... the longer you play.. the more behind you'll always be. The only way to be ahead in this "game" is to have been playing from the launch.

    The "game" has never seemed more pointless. I was collecting duplicate Eddies, had most of them... I've sacrificed them.. no Legendary souls.... I covert over 100 Light souls.. only see 2 Lilliths.. I'm constantly short of gold.. and when I do farm a level for days to get gold... I finally can level up talismans, but inevitably never have enough runes to do that.

    There is FAR TOO MUCH in this "game" that "skirts" the satisfaction barrier. There are not enough rewards. DOUBLE the drop of rune stones in PVE.. DOUBLE the amount of iron coins in teh area.. QUADRUPLE the amount of gold dropped at some levels. I mean.. isn't the point to have fun? Why so stingy with everything? You aren't "slowing progress" you are "eliminating fulfillment".

    Heres a thought.. how about NOT charging my credit card if you can't accept the payment???

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    Hitting "RETRY" just means you deduct the same amount AGAIN from my credit card and I may or may not actually receive the item. Because when this error pops up it translates to "APPLE HAS CHARGED YOUR PAYMENT METHOD. BUT THE GAME ISN'T GOING TO ACTUALLY GIVE YOU ANYTHING." A more appropriate message would be "Your Purchase Failed. Please retain the receipt for the purchase. Note the date and time of purchase and then contact Support."
    Last edited by Yup; 03-09-2018 at 08:38 PM.
    -----
    insert witty remark here.

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