Why Relics are BAD for the game, my LotB story.

[Sponholz]

Ok so, for those who don't know me, my Name is Eduardo (Edward if you like to translate foreign names), but you can call me Ed.

I have been playing this game sice the beggining, and I sadly lost my first account, and decided to do a fresh start instead of trying to recover the old one.

Said that, I can assure you that I have a LOT of hours spent playing this game, hell I'm playing my Troopers while I'm writing this.


So...

Why do I think this Relic system is a really bad thing...

I am a competitive player, in basically any game I played, and the one thing that got me into Arena here in LotB was the possibility of beating Slauki, Bradata, Nicko, Mariner, Shaolinlondo, Askora, Kamuz, Carlos and several others that I consider top players in the Arena.

Man I still remember when "donslauki", kamuz and the other names showed up on the attack list, I was really nervous, and honorable to be able to from a fresh start be against the top players again.

I got my ass beat, like a lot of times from Slauki's team, winning or losing the coin toss.

My team was good, my talis wasn't optimized tho, had something to aim for, something that required some time playing and farming the shit out of the BNW to lvl those talis up.

But you know what, it was worth it, some days/weeks have passed, my team was doing good, correct talis, lvl 50 ones all good.

And then again, those names showed up... oh boy... REMATCH TIME!!!!

And I did it, once I had figured out a team that I was comfortable with I managed to farm the talis for then, lvled then up and I did it, I have won against several of the top dogs teams. And I was really happy and feeling rewarded for putting my time into the game.

The amount of time we both played the game didn't mattered, honestly it don't take that much of a time to farm and lvl the talis needed for you to enter the arena in a competitive level. (could take longer cause of RNG for some needed ones, like Immunity for ex).

Anyway, I could have waited for a month to prep my team, and the challenge would still be there, waiting for me, there is some nasty defenses out there, believe me.

They needed to think and test the defense, they spent hours figuring out AI patterns, and the best characters that synergized well with each other.

It was a blast to farm for that objectives.




Now the Relics arrived...




If the Relics existed in the above timeline, I would never be able to beat then, they would always be ahead of me no matter how much I tried, the play time here is now the demanding factor.

When I would be finally getting the talis I needed to finish my team, they would have raised the GAP in terms of relics by a mile, and no, I would not be able to "eventually" catch up on then, the GAP and time needed would be too high.

Now you don't need to over think you defense teams, you will always be ahead of anyone that want to try and challenge your teams.

It doesn't matter if it affects "only" the base stats, well it don't, there are several scaling factors involved that the base stats does matter, and a lot. (Kaz words: massively buffed, regarding talis that scale out of the base stats).



Anyway, I needed to get this out of my chest, this game helped me a LOT, and I mean a LOT when I was (still am) going trough some heavy stuff on my life. More then you all can imagine.

I am just sad to see a P2W/Grindfest pattern forming in it.


... Ed.


Request for the Admins: Please change the title of this post to "Why Relics are BAD (PVP wise) for the game, my LotB Arena story."
The title can be a little misleading and this is not what I want to pass. Thanks in adv.

[Mariner-1212]

Great story, Ed, thanks for sharing. I can relate to the feeling of seeing the names of the greats in the list and getting excited to go in against them, even enjoying it when I get my ass kicked... it's a lot of fun and you learn a lot.

I think a lot of players will feel the same way about the Relics. For a very long time, the gap is going to be huge. It's not doable, but I definitely think PVP would benefit from weight-classes like boxing. The more relics you have, the higher class you get put into. So for the newbs, there's a featherweight division where they can achieve eternal in that division. They can also opt to move into the next division by consistently winning and by having a specific amount of relics / talismans / etc.

It would eliminate the impossibility of achievement for players in each tier. Carlos is a machine, even without Relics. With them, there's no way you or I are going to dent him. It just won't happen. But the next tier down might be a sweet spot for us competitively, and allow us to have a shot at the top of that division.

I think the Relics are a great addition from a playability/excitement standpoint... but they need to be framed carefully so they don't generate hopelessness.

[Sponholz]

Thanks for replying Mariner, and I don't think Relics are a bad thing outside the Arena, they are just not needed there, I think mostly will agree with me here.

For PvE purposes they are indeed amazing, another long-term goal to beat the hardest bosses that will be added SOON™ (Google Blizzard's SOON™ if you didn't get the joke here).

I don't remember me complaining about then regarding PvE in all honesty so I agree with you 100% there.

And thinking about PvE, the fact that you could buy Relics for PvE purposes inside the Arena is also an amazing thing if you ask me, this alone gives me another objective to play even more Arena matches. (not considering the fact that they also work inside the Arena).

Can you imagine in like a month or two, the "guaranteed" shards in an Arena event? I mean you have to WIN to get the shards, so yeah even those type of events will be affected, 400 wins? LOL even the basic 300 wins will be a nightmare if you are an average player. (hell even we that consider ourselves the above-average-not-so-hardcore players will have a hard time on this events).

... Ed.

[scott-5496]

Kind of with you on this Ed. This is a potential game changer for all players in a good and bad way. I play a lot but only really on the auto-farm troopers and then for the rest of the day to get gold, resources and the like. I dont play lots of arena - usually just what I get as a freebe on SoW each day or when I get SoW from sacrifice for example. However, it may be that with this new change and the upcoming Gauntlet iron coins will be availble a bit more and we will have more carrot/stick to make us play to get these coins. The devs and the game have to make money - simple. The way to do that is for the players to chase goals, be that an new character, event, talisman, coins, eternal or whatever...so we are mere cogs in a money making wheel and that wont change. I do think that we do need new stuff to do and new stuff like this gives new goals - all of which I see as good but you are correct - it will potentially drive away lower level players and that is a fear.....alternatively it may be what the game needs to get new bllod as they have a pretty quick way to boost there teams.

For me PVP is a challenge - I am a lazy player and dont swap out toons in my team to often - I use the three on the PVP screen and that is about it....I cant be bothered changing talisman or teams to much to beat PVP players so my goal is to use my core toons and Eds to beat what is put in front of me. I used to easily get say 95% success rates a few months ago - now I am lucky to get mid 80% or so - there is just so much more variation these days and my laziness means that I foten get beat and often a team I should on paper beat batters me due to RNG. Thsi I think is the thing with the game nowadays - a level 50 or 60 can still get me if they have a decent team and RNG helps them. I donthink this will change so I am now less bothered about losses to lower teams - it is part of MY meta! LOL.

Saying that I am actually getting more into PVP these days as the variation is so much more than it has been no real domianant Ed - it was Mummy, it was Visions, it was VHE it was SSE and so one - now there is a mix of most of these so for lazt players like me we will lose a few more matches - again I try not to get too bothered as I do not pay to play (other than my time) but due to my massive ironite stock pile I may actually use some of it in PVP, why not eh!

I think any change is a good thing for the game and we all need some new stuff to aim for and if relics is one then that is fine but yes only the devs will really see what it is doing to numbers playing and hwo the game is being played....so I would not be surprised if they revisit this again to help bring a better balance for all levels of players.

I just hope that it works out for most and not for a few. PVE is really just a trooper grind, much like BNW ad LOL for resources - the fact they are building in events to the grind is good so I think the devs are doing OK and I am all for more content....we just need to give it some time to bed in to see what is next round the corner. Gauntlet I am looking forward to....and Night City etc!

Cheers

[Stormseye]

I am already running 5 relics and the difference is huge. I have to agree that Relics either need to be null and void in PVP or they need to be tiered. I battled today against VHE/GLillith/Allied General/GCoTD, the player had two ranks in gunner Relic attack and 4 of the 6 globals. I didn't get out of the first round...and he went second. I was hit for 52k.

I am also a bit confused as to why they are now forcing people to play PVP to get Relics. I know some never venture into the Arena save for the daily reward. There needs to be another avenue to acquire Relics, especially for the casual players that enjoy the PVE side exclusively. Maybe the Mode-Specific Relics will be available through other means since we haven't seen them yet. Though it may be likely there are PVP and PVE only Relics.

[DIEDD]

I agree with everything that has been said here, the relics are a great addition to the game but I think the devs made a serious mistake allowing them to be applicable to the PVP, I am not a pvp player, it really bores me, just I play it when I want to get iron coins or in events, now it will become complicated even for those who casually play this game mode. The idea that they apply to pve and that you have to get them playing pvp is great, it encourages you to continue playing pvp and it serves to make you stronger against the bosses of the pve mode, but I do not see the point in the pvp, I always had the vision of that this game mode was to test the skills and strategies of the player against other players, but with the relics I think this is lost because in the long term only the one that has all the best improvements of the relics will win.

[dragonmat89]

I agree totally - great idea for PVE as future levels will only be harder and we need another way of levelling up. For PVP though it will become a pay to win system so maybe just setting them for PVE would be the best bet?

[slauki]

cool story ed, thanks for sharing. not much more to add since i commented a lot on this. i agree with every post here. let's see how the game will develop. for me a new hame mode like ganutlet would have been much more interesting, but well the relics spice the game up a lot at least...

[kkkreg5]

So the up coming Arena event will be impossible if only wins are registered, as the last few have been, with these relics. I agree with Diedd and Scott on this. I don't play PVP at all except for events because of the time needed and I don't want to put in the time to create teams.

I don't see why NF doesn't just make the announcement that LOTB is now a "pay to win" game. Do this, disclose the odds and I think all players would respect them more.

[Amarthir]

While I can't wholeheartedly agree with what everyone is saying, I can't exactly disagree either, since these new relics came out things have probably changed enormously in the higher upper ranks, but for me, ehh they're still kinda the same. The only time I willingly went to the highest rank I could get I was far too stressed out about staying there I decided it wasn't for me.

Anyways back to the subject. There's a counter to relics, and that's in the new "Exhaust" effect. Exhaust reduces all stats except for health by I think 90%, meaning that those fancy new relics wouldn't be able to save you. Right now there are two ways of applying this,

1: Zone Talismans, not exactly my personal go to since they're hard as dick to acquire, but I think they can affect everyone if I'm not mistaken.

2: Magus Lilith: again not that easy to find but I think she can only apply it to one enemy at a time.

And for the health part of it, we're waiting to get a chance to obtain Necropolis Talismans, and they're reduce the overall health of someone every time you hit them. That's really brutal if you think about it. They could show up in the next arena event for all I know.


So to wrap it up, yes I agree that at the current moment, those who had a large cache of iron coins are going to benefit more from the new release than those without, and new players may have a tough time against someone who has them. But hey, they start out really cheap, plus everyone talks about the fact that the Gauntlet WILL be another way of getting them. So sooner or later PvP won't be "forcing you to play".