April 2017 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Nicko]

I'm not quite sure why everyone says AoP is dead. Shortening Endure - Shields - even immunity - will happen after the first round. Yes - the first round is important - but most matches go beyond that.

The Prisoner however will be countered easily with a Red Pyro or Green Droid every single round. Start with a Hellhound or immunity Talismans and he's simply not a threat.

There's a whole thread discussing the Prisoner - and solutions - the developers can access that easily - so no need to start another here.

We all adapt. I look forward to using some new toons. This kind of got derailed when I asked why HomemLivre was so upset about people expressing their opinion that they thought the Prisoner nerf was harsh - that he was castrated.

I still think he was - and many do - but so be it! The game will go on - we'll all be forced to start thinking differently - and that's a good thing. Some of us just weren't ready to think THAT differently

[Nicko]

And if that is the case, then YES, following rounds I think the new debuff should apply to everybody if immunity not there. This will save the prisoner for PvE (and btw AoP will be dead for that), and he will still be a lot of value, can block AoP and AoF passives, stun 2 round basic attack and silence with power move. How is that not a 5 toon?

I hope this is the solution devs go for.

Would that be ok Nicko and Prisoner owners?

Cheers
Gmac

Considering he'll be so readily countered - I think your proposal of affecting four toons instead of two would be a more fair solution. Toons like Viking (assuming Loot is fixed ) can steal buffs and may open a bit of a door for his debuffs to take effect.

[Sag7272]

Considering he'll be so readily countered - I think your proposal of affecting four toons instead of two would be a more fair solution.

.... Think I suggested just that at the beginning of the thread & nobody noticed lol, being a buff make it counterable easily nobody gonna use him if he randomly block mummy's & SSD "passives" while an AoP pass uncountered..
Worse any key toon under immunity (Troll) can go right away without caring for one minute about him...
Either some let go frustrations or don't understand that if he's countered by everyone everytime he's straight up worthless, his dmg are out of subject, I'll take an AoF before him with that nerf if I need that kind of damages with CC at least I'll have a turn & won't rely on RNG for having some use of the passive...
With 4 opponents affected he'd keep same use but still counterable WTF is wrong with that, immunity is as manageable there as against an SSD or a CG, those Droid & Pyros have been built for something no?

He definitely deserve to be nerfed in some ways it's inevitable, but not to be destroyed either, he wasn't counterable, now he will be... That's it it should be that simple..

[gmac]

Considering he'll be so readily countered - I think your proposal of affecting four toons instead of two would be a more fair solution. Toons like Viking (assuming Loot is fixed ) can steal buffs and may open a bit of a door for his debuffs to take effect.

I'm glad we agree on that

(Devs, maybe a settlement!!!)

Yes, I think it's a fair solution and both AoP and Prisoner will still be strong assets on offense.

On defense they are gone probably, but I'm glad, vast majority of defenses have either Prisoner, DD or AoP.

And I wanted to say AoP is gone only from PvE, if siege doesn't trigger first round we´ll put some other toon in there, probably with shield. And the Prisoner I guess you'll be able to use same way on PvE, but against HH/Art Dog.

Cheers

[Silentknight]

If you want every piece equal play checkers

Lol,checkers! 'King Me!' or is it 'Crown Me!'...Hilarious! @ work,missin all this...grrrrr!

[Caretaker]

I have not missread a thing. It is gloves on saying 'I won't change it' and 'I choose the toones that are usefull in arena', gloves off. Real arguments please, as I've sad I am a reasonable man.

Proposed 'nerf' on the prisoner is good 'wishfull thinking' he's getting a nerf, good for the game and they should make it as they have written it. With even lover rate of 30% like that mummy power smash stuns haha

So it does not block passives. 50% block of passive per creature means it will harm 3/4 if not all toones every turn (unless rng decides to hate you once in a while) and I'm sure they will make him target key toones (as now he is stuck on ass on attacker team) that you are mentioning would bother you to have passives, so your concerns @Nicko et al. that it will be countered by hellhound are wrong.
No toones will be left immune, unless by talis or skill as they are now. Blue bat and dd will be blocked every turn. Troll passive will be down too and non harmfull shields. One may hope it leaves one toone allone.

So what are the concerns of the prisoner owners? That rng will hate you? No, it will not.

[HomemLivre]

Lol,checkers! 'King Me!' or is it 'Crown Me!'...Hilarious! @ work,missin all this...grrrrr!

It is really funny couse Im searching but I didnt find yet who want to make all pieces equal hahahahah

Maybe balance has been mistaken for equity, but thats ok to haha

[Sag7272]

Have to call you wrong on that part...

So your concerns @Nicko et al. that it will be countered by hellhound are wrong.
No toones will be left immune, unless by talis or skill as they are now

Beginning of thread I asked this very question...

2-Since it's now a buff, passive immunity would prevent it or not?

It means a HH right? ^^
The answer was this...

Immunity would stop the Passive Block negative status effect.

I have not missread a thing. It is gloves on saying 'I won't change it' and 'I choose the toones that are usefull in arena', gloves off. Real arguments please, as I've sad I am a reasonable man

I'm resonable too but against killing toons.. he deserves a nerf but with all talismans + future ones & the new "balancing" his last hold of not being buff based will be gone.. he is now counterable & even by any HH or artillery dog or any tallisman for all that matters.. What's the point of going further, it was the problem since day 1...

[Sparton_LOTB]

Beginning of thread I asked this very question...

[Sag: Since it's now a buff, passive immunity would prevent it or not?]

It means a HH right? ^^
The answer was this...

[Sparton: Immunity would stop the Passive Block negative status effect.]

Actually, to further clarify, it seems I might have been mistaken with the priorities of conflicting effects from passives that should trigger at the same time. The intent is that Immunity talismans would work fine, but a character's passive (such as Hellhound's Repeal) does not take precedent over the Prisoner's Passive Aggression debuffs, so Hellhound is not an answer at the beginning of combat (but may help later in combat).

[mjmxiii]

This is going to be an interesting update...how is that timeframe looking there Sparton? One thing is certain, we are all eager to see what you guys come up with!

Btw, seeing some really good teams in PvP that don't have a Prisoner, SSD, AoF, AoP, GR or any of the other so-called "OP" toons. You all make it real tough to get 350 Iron coins for that skill shard at reset!