April 19th 2017 Update Discussion

[Silentknight]

had another screwup twice this week. i play on pc an on phone sometimes. when i swich devices it can happend that my pvp defense change automaticly.
had my fully sharded red bat replaced with my levelup unsharded redbat dupe twice this week. this happends since beta, and that's really annoying, because it
really hurts my defense, without that i have changed something.

it would be great if we could if we could lock or defense or something like that.

Had that between tablet & phone. Thot might be reason for defense tanking but no such luck,lmao! Locking defense would be great, who wants to play around & leave their arena defense naked!!!

[Tritium]

There is something i don't understand...you adjust characters skills and passives like for angel of pain because his passive was too powerfull (remove the talismants effects in the first round...) and you introduce a new character who can do worst (vision eddie) and the best is that he hasn't no counter...
Result: he is in every team, i must be the only guy who have one and don't use it in my defense team lol
Not sure that this new update allow a better variety of characters in pvp...

Whoa, you bring up a great point, man. I hadn't even realized before how VE is just AoP in a different form (where the siege ability is activated based on a basic attack rather than a passive).

But still - because buffs are such a huge part of this game - an AoE removal is huge - and unless he's adjusted, we'll be seeing him over and over and over - diversity be damned

So the question is less - in my opinion - about him being "overpowered" - most good players beat him all the time - and more about whether the developers truly want diversity in Eddie selection

I have to agree with Nicko's post. VE destroys diversity at the top as whoever has him, likely uses him (here we go again with a toon who destroys diversity. First the Prisoner, then Mummy, now VE. What fun).

after using visions since the update on offense and defense i have learned something about him and the game.

visions is only a problem when all of this things happend at together:

1. Enemy goes first
2. visions act before taunter/stunner
3. Visions actually remove buffs
4. the taunter/stunner tiggers on your stripped toons.
5. you have to loose despite this all happends

when all these things happend together you are screwed and there is not much you can do about . while this seems to be an unlikely scenario, it seems to be more common
in pvp, when i look at the holding rates. he is clearly to handle and most good players have excellent winning rates against him. if you pair him with some extremly strong toons, he can be a real pain, but this scenario is much better than "prisoner without immunity talisman" scenario, so we have made huge progress. if you change him for the first round he will be useless, only thing that could be done is to reduce take to 30% or something similar.
what i really hate about him as i pointed out last time that EVERY top team uses him. that really kills the diversity of pvp. OTOH there will prolly always be one or more key toon that everyone will use, like VE/ SSD, so i'm not sure, that this can really be solved in someway. i'm really not entirely sure anymore what to think about him, he grants us some holds anyway, which is very nice but as long as he is the only toon that gives you such a significant advantage this is unbalanced i feel.

I appreciate your openness to the VE discussion, slauki. It seems that some of the guys who benefit from him are hesitant to address how he has affected the game.


Yes, I understand that VE needs to be worthy of 5*. Yes, I understand that the game deserves to have toons who are better than others (and I agree with this sentiment). However, VE's "Take" ability presents a problem with its ability to make the game become "easy mode" for the people who have him. Any toon that allows that to happen needs to be addressed.

I've updated my suggestion based on the feedback here: simply make it so that VE's take ability will always remove beneficial effects from TWO toons. This allows him to remain incredibly useful, but he won't be breaking the game anymore. This is a middle-ground approach that addresses the issue of him wiping out a whole team's buffs, while also making it so that he doesn't have a chance of not wiping out a single toon's buffs (although I've never seen that happen). He will be guaranteed to remove two toons' buffs every time he uses that skill. For those of you who own him, what do you think of this suggestion? Oh, and please keep the discussion civil. If you claim that anyone who disagrees with your opinion is "crying", then others will be far less likely to take what you're saying seriously. Nobody was crying from what I've read (except for maybe angelkelly, but hey, we've grown to expect that! ).

Fight on, folks.

[Enti]

always remove beneficial effects from TWO toons

Pair it with death dog and we will have another 3 weeks of crying

In poker there is ONE hand that cannot be beaten. You want a setup/team here that cannot be beaten? I for one don't.

I don't really know how to interpret this response xD

[Tritium]

Pair it with death dog and we will have another 3 weeks of crying

Not necessarily, as they could both affect the same two toons. Also, how many people have both? I don't see that as an effective counterargument to what I said at all.

[BenjaminBreeg]

I think the percentage is much cooler than the guaranteed two toons cause you have a chance to get more, but have the chance to get none, too
If we are honest, most of the time it's just two toons, it wouldn't change many things, only the excitement will miss.
And the point Enti mentioned is really true. Most complain about specific teams, that will never change, even with the Nerf of ve

[Enti]

Not necessarily, as they could both affect the same two toons. Also, how many people have both? I don't see that as an effective counterargument to what I said at all.

This I totally agree with.
Soooooo what exactly is the problem with VE? The altered Take + DD is pretty much the same scenario as current Take skill. Ripping buffs from 0-4 characters, all by chance & RNG.

I'd just like to understand the logic behind why one is acceptable but the other not. And the countless posts about VE's Take is too much does not help in this process.

Really, after I let my frustration loose in the afternoon, now I'm more on the perception side as why people see VE as an ultimate, unbeatable beast that should have his abilities reduced.


And for the record, "crying" for me is not an opinion I disagree with, as everyone has different insights and experience on the same subject, but that at least 2 posts on each page at different threads users have the argument "too much" or "OP" and so on.

[Tritium]

I think the percentage is much cooler than the guaranteed two toons cause you have a chance to get more, but have the chance to get none, too
If we are honest, most of the time it's just two toons, it wouldn't change many things, only the excitement will miss.
And the point Enti mentioned is really true. Most complain about specific teams, that will never change, even with the Nerf of ve

Team composition is a part of strategy and doesn't matter here. The point we're driving at is that VE destroys Eddie diversity. If you manage to pull a Cyborg, Rainmaker, Samurai, Navigator, Shaman, and a VE, which of those Eddies will you throw on your defense team? I think most of us know the answer to that question. THAT, is the point we're driving at. People complaining about the powerful team compositions is merely a symptom of the problem, not the root cause.

[Tritium]

I'd just like to understand the logic behind why one is acceptable but the other not. And the countless posts about VE's Take is too much does not help in this process.

Please see my above post.

[Silentknight]

Team composition is a part of strategy and doesn't matter here. The point we're driving at is that VE destroys Eddie diversity. If you manage to pull a Cyborg, Rainmaker, Samurai, Navigator, Shaman, and a VE, which of those Eddies will you throw on your defense team? I think most of us know the answer to that question. THAT, is the point we're driving at. People complaining about the powerful team compositions is merely a symptom of the problem, not the root cause.

It's the prisoner all over again, who he's paired with etc. Well they nerfed him so... Problem is 80% of the toons are still useless! Improve all A.I.!!!

[Enti]

Team composition is a part of strategy and doesn't matter here. The point we're driving at is that VE destroys Eddie diversity. If you manage to pull a Cyborg, Rainmaker, Samurai, Navigator, Shaman, and a VE, which of those Eddies will you throw on your defense team? I think most of us know the answer to that question. THAT, is the point we're driving at. People complaining about the powerful team compositions is merely a symptom of the problem, not the root cause.

Okay now I definitely understand more, thank you for that. What I saw throughout Arena defense team usage was 99% Mummy + GRE simply because of the versatility and the damage (respectively). The only thing that changed is now VE instead of Mummy, and yes, you are right about no Eddie diversity.

However, as HomemLivre pointed out, now instead of basically Mummy + Prisoner/AoP + SSD + Pyro/AoF everywhere, now the allies used alongside VE is coming from a much broader pool, which is already an achievement for PVP team varieties on its own.

Trust me, if Samurai wasn't this squishy, I'd be using him. Or Tailgunner as he has an immense potential.

On the other hand, where due to current matchmaking algorythm basically rewarding those who have higher hold % because of 1:1 ratio, people will resort to the most reliable one - and that currently is VE.

All in all I am a member of the group yearning for a change in the point system. This simple modification might reduce the anxiety of people not having current meta, and would obviously open up the doors for all the characters. Let's say we lose 1-5 point on defensive hold, hell, I'd put together the funkiest team I can find which is still capable of winning ~20%