May 2017 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Caretaker]

Thank you for the infos guys.

I do have a new question.. about the shield/passive ordering. As is now, what is casted first counts. Before I've got used to it I have been using (and lost to it quite some of the battles) combinations like troll/green bot + AoS. What happens is that AoS block passive prevails over shields and takes the full dmg. Lets say green harpy hits my low hp team where prior to it my green bot casted force shields on all and my AoS is still alive. Force shielding is ignored, 3 bars remain but AoS is dead for sucking up the dmg. Was surprised. Same happens with red troll passive shields (and I can't say if it goes for shell talis respectively since I haven't tested). So this ordering is easier to notice with force shields on.

Imo the logic would be that dmg is reduced/calculated per creature respectively to shields before it moves to AoS due to block.

Well I've learned the hard way not to pair those things for now.
So the question is will this order remain or it will be adressed sometime soon and the logic will prevail.

[gmac]

Don't you worry, there's key fixes to the matchmaking and point systems in the next patch, in conjunction with some solid motivation to earn a lot of Iron Coins.
Those of you with massive war chests of Iron Coins will also have a special one-time offer to get, too.

Hi Sparton, could you further elaborate on the new matchmaking system and incentives do use Iron Coins? (how much coins is needed to fill a massive war chest btw?)

About point system, kind of in the fences here, I hate I have to cherry pick players above me and revenge holds to try and get people tilted (feels dirty). Not able to use SoW sucks too.
But I like seeing new names at the top. Current system makes us think lot more on our defenses too... Of course I'm biased to Saturday's madness... but yeah... hope with changes some of that stays. A lot of that actually!

But my real point is this, can we have BNW already?!?
What's up with changing talismans that no longer drop? How on earth people who did not gather them way back, or are new to the game gonna get them? Also, Shell and Immunity are no longer available, for instance people that have come back to the game can't access them too. (probably some newer players also)

Not to mention not everybody is PvP maniac, I'd even say most people just like collecting Eddies and enjoy playing PvE, so, new content, PLEASE?!

Sorry about the little rant! Really admire you guys talking, and listening, to us!

Cheers
gmac

[Nicko]

About point system, kind of in the fences here, I hate I have to cherry pick players above me and revenge holds to try and get people tilted (feels dirty). Not able to use SoW sucks too.
But I like seeing new names at the top. Current system makes us think lot more on our defenses too... Of course I'm biased to Saturday's madness... but yeah... hope with changes some of that stays. A lot of that actually!

Cheers
gmac

I think it's great seeing new names at the top. But I don't think anyone there wants to feel like they got there because they played the style you described - and that's exactly what you have to do in the current environment. It's lose lose. Players lose because they're penalized to play and frustrated by the psychology of being pushed back any time they make progress if they don't pick there targets just right and watch their numbers. Developers lose because less Ironite is spent.

A win-win scenario is needed.

Defenses? I would argue they matter less. Only because I have not chatted with anyone who feels their Hold rates are worth a darn with a lot of the recent changes. Of course my sample is fairly small - but it includes some pretty smart posters here on the forums.

I think it also depends on your play style. When one would blow through lists, you'd get revenged more. You'd tend to Hold the less experienced players and the the more experienced players would Break your defense. Occasionally you'd Hold some of the bigger guns like you or Jofer - and that's always cool.

With the current style of cherry-picking names above you - combined with Strike Talismans everywhere - consensus amongst most I've talked to are the 30% Hold rates are a thing of the past. You'll be getting revenged by the more experienced players so they will break your defense more often. 15-25% is more realistic.

It's likely using a strategy like Hold (the player) described in another thread (cherry picking weaklings) gives a better defensive Hold rate. Those revenging you are more likely to be unsuccessful in their revenge because you targeted a weaker player to begin with.

But From my standpoint - cherry picking just a few names on each list - whether players above you or those too weak to have a good chance at a revenge - is a trend I can't wait to see disappear.

[mjmxiii]

Reading through this thread, I gotta say that too many folks complain about chars being too strong! If its not AoF it's Prisoner, if not him it's GR, not him then it's GCR and if her, then why not Sentinel Harpy? That's the reason we can't have nice things lol... This cycle of complaints is a never ending NerF wheel. Keeps on spinning... I never thought PvP would cause so many NerF bats to start swinging. For that reason alone, PvP kills it. It's literally opened a Pandoras box for people to yack into and it's making me sick lol 🤢

New content!!

[Nicko]

Reading through this thread, I gotta say that too many folks complain about chars being too strong! If its not AoF it's Prisoner, if not him it's GR, not him then it's GCR and if her, then why not Sentinel Harpy? That's the reason we can't have nice things lol... This cycle of complaints is a never ending NerF wheel. Keeps on spinning... I never thought PvP would cause so many NerF bats to start swinging. For that reason alone, PvP kills it. It's literally opened a Pandoras box for people to yack into and it's making me sick lol 🤢

New content!!

I agree with much of this. But as far as Sentinel Harpy - it's not a nerf - it's an adjustment. If you take an unsharded Harpy and do the math based on how much each skill shard increases damage, you'll see she was hitting for way harder than intended. The scaling was off.

[mjmxiii]

I agree with much of this. But as far as Sentinel Harpy - it's not a nerf - it's an adjustment. If you take an unsharded Harpy and do the math based on how much each skill shard increases damage, you'll see she was hitting for way harder than intended. The scaling was off.

Fair enough. Don't have one and have yet to lose to one in PvP. Just seems like too many of us have gotten use to cries for the Bat...thought she was another one

[Kardas]

Thanks again for all the answers Sparton. If you don't mind I have two more questions:

I've been testing some damage over time effects to find out about the skill effects, and I was wondering how they work in concert with accuracy buffs.
Take the Flame skill for instance (Warrior & Sentinel Pyro): The attack has an 65% chance (without Skill Shards) to inflict the Flame status, which has a 35% chance to Remove Beneficial Effects.
Would an accuracy increase here increase the probability of both the Flame status and buff removal happening, or just the Flame status? Does the same thing happen with Skill Shard application?

I was also testing Bleed, and there's a slight contradiction in the skill description: it say it deals magic damage but deals true damage. Or at least, it dealt true damage by my Rocket Dog.

[Tritium]

Reading through this thread, I gotta say that too many folks complain about chars being too strong! If its not AoF it's Prisoner, if not him it's GR, not him then it's GCR and if her, then why not Sentinel Harpy? That's the reason we can't have nice things lol... This cycle of complaints is a never ending NerF wheel. Keeps on spinning... I never thought PvP would cause so many NerF bats to start swinging. For that reason alone, PvP kills it. It's literally opened a Pandoras box for people to yack into and it's making me sick lol ��

New content!!

Look through the thread again. Seems that the players debating for nerfs are actually in the minority now. AFAIK, it seems that only slauki and I feel that the GCR isn't a balanced toon. BTW, that's the only toon I feel isn't balanced in the current state of the game (Sentinel Harpy, as stated by even Sparton himself, is bugged currently and doing more damage than intended).

Don't confuse us players arguing for the changing of one toon to be in favor of nerfing overall ─ I far prefer buffs to nerfs, and am glad that this appears to be the current direction the game is heading in (one needs only look at the new update notes to see this). Also, I'm pretty certain that most people are okay with the GCR's current state because of the many counters that only just became available with the most recent update. There were a lot more people who were ambivalent towards that specific toon a couple months ago. Counters to something, however, do not make that thing intrinsically balanced ─ they merely provide new ways of dealing with it. Read slauki's example of this in the last page to understand what I mean.

[gmac]

Defenses? I would argue they matter less.

Hey Nicko!

This would probably hurt my style of play, but I think defenses should matter more actually (yeah, better AI needed)

Look what HomemLivre was able to accomplish... He was up there Saturday morning because of his defense and smart play during the week. Every new patch that guy just know what is going to work.

We all just copy each other defenses, this is what's wrong. His out of the box thinking and quick adaptation to the new rules were key to his results. And lot of hard work, you would not believe the amount of time and dedication he puts to figure out the best defense possible. It blows my mind. Glad it got rewarded. (Still he had to play a lot Saturday to get his results and probably with some ironite investment)

Attack theoretical weaker players and revenge holds is nothing new, I personally don't like it. Like to clear my list and move on. But had to adapt somehow, at least during the week.

And new players have arrived in this new system, perhaps they are encouraged now to try Eternal too... this is good to the game, I think. (Kamuz is an awesome player, just an example)

Hope devs can balance it a bit, yes... but this is a tough one.

Don't know... Devs? Anybody?

[Tritium]

And new players have arrived in this new system, perhaps they are encouraged now to try Eternal too... this is good to the game, I think. (Kamuz is an awesome player, just an example)

Hope devs can balance it a bit, yes... but this is a tough one.

Don't know... Devs? Anybody?

I've been thinking about the new players as well. At this point, I'd imagine they're highly disadvantaged compared to the veteran players. They don't have any shell or immunity talismans to rely on, they lack skill shards, and they lack iron coins to obtain the new talismans and other resources they need to compete. I foresee a problem here: they lack iron coins needed to be competitive, but they likely can't win many fights to even accumulate any large amount of iron coins. They'd probably be more inclined to quit rather than slog it through the tough times of being new to the game...That's not a good situation for the future of the game! :S