Frontier Coin Shop Update - Alexander Eddie Debut!

[MetalKing]

"kind of feel the pricing structure is based upon those stockpiles, not the average player. That's where I think there's a disconnect. Sparton specifically posted that "many players have over 1000 FC". I don't know how many "many" is.. but I wonder how that "many" relates to players overall as in 1% of players? 5%? 10%? 50%? "
Well I presently have only 150 FC. I will celebrate my year anniversary with lotb in may. I usually can only manage 1 vortex for each sac event. I would be willing to pay $50 for the new packs but $100 is way out of my price range.

[Sparton_LOTB]

I was thinking about the price of those mythical soul packs. Wouldn't it be advantageous to you to have the price at say £25 and have 1000 people (probably way more) buy it than have a bare minimum (say 100 people) buying them at 100 bucks?!

If we thought that were the case we'd price it accordingly, but based on the purchase patterns derived from the hundreds of other items we've surfaced in the store, IAP or in-game currency, no, it really wouldn't.

I obviously can't get overly specific in here (can't be sharing trade secrets about exact performance on a public forum), but it's also pretty apparent when you look at other games with similar business models as ours. We aren't an outlier in this regard.

I believe that you are, at NF, making an enormous mistake by keeping your cards so tight. You kept the release day of BNW hidden for a very long time and other releases have also been announsed very late. I believe if you gave us all a date for the release of Night City or Gautlet or any of the other features you've been talking about you would see a far more possitive attitude towards events and event special characters.

Anyway, I am all good with it.....just please give us some real new content or a timeline for it that we can be sure will happen. Other then these new toons there is nothing to do for us of any meaning - the arena is a relic zone. Most likely I will keep digging away for relics but at the moment I just do not have the time or energy to battle the top 50 or so. It is just not worth it as 'entertainment' to me - getting owned in one round or hardly getting a shot away - is just a bit boring.

Aye, but that's the key: we don't have a release date for those. Or more accurately, we do internally... but it's changed numerous times, and there's no assurance it won't again if some other obstacle (business, personnel, etc) comes up, so I don't want to give false hope by putting out a specific date that has a high likelihood of changing.

Game companies aren't secretive about release dates because we hate our players. Game companies don't disclose specifics because they know players will ream them if anything gets delayed. And since internal delays happen a lot in this industry... game companies are secretive about exact dates.

Lots of fair counterpoints to my post, Sparton. I still wonder, though, what characters might become available via FCs over the next six months or so. 2500 FCs is a lot to part with even for the most engaged players if alternative options might be appearing soon.

The only plan I know of is related to the Gauntlet, and like I've said for anything relating to that... it's all subject to change as we refine the feature, so even then I can't tell you any specifics with regards to characters, non-character collectables, or prices.

One thing to consider is that the Assassin and Gunner packs will guarantee a 5* Eddie �� so all in all a pretty good deal considering you get 5k ironite was well

As natasar and Blade already responded to this, but to clarify, 3/4 possible 5★ Gunners and 2/3 possible 5★ Assassins are Eddies.

Quite frankly I’m surprised you didn’t see this backlash coming. As soon as the opportunity to earn Alexander with Frontier coins was posted - combined with the soul packs - my friends and I said – “uh oh”.

[A whole lotta good points]

While I can't get into all of the internal reasons and motivations, it is pretty clear that we tried... "different" things this month, and even though we can foresee the backlash for some aspects of it, we can assume there's gonna be backlash for pretty much anything new or different that we do. That of course isn't to say we'll just plow ahead, but things like adding Liltihs along side The Alchemist, Trooper Souls, and Eternity Souls as a long term grind was definitely met with a lot of frustration, but... I do feel like a lot of people have accepted and even appreciated how we did that long-term goal along side the ones that came last year, despite misgivings that happened in the immediate term when it was new.

Could we have handled The Beast and/or Alexander Eddie the same way? I don't think we could, since the Liliths were done in a way that there were 5 to collect so that people could get their feet wet and get one relatively sooner than completing the whole collection, and The Beast and Alexander Eddie are two singular characters (and two that don't really make the start of a sensible "set"). The feedback we have gotten has been immensely insightful, though, both for these more recent events and for general critiques we've had within the context of those new events and additions, and I've been discussing with Kaz and others on the teams what alternate ways we can address the concerns while continuing to expand the game (albeit at a pace that many will agree is slower than desired).

And yes, a lot of this circles back on the whole subject of needing new features and playable content, and not just new collectable content. Two major factors make just focusing on those a problem, though:

• Resourcing: The short version for this is there is an amazing amount of art requirements to finish releasing a world, and you definitely can't do a "beta" of it, so it's very much an all or nothing matter. We need dozens of characters, some of which need their own animations, then a world map environment (done in 3 different ways due to difficulty), plus a dozen or so combat environments (again done in 3 different ways due to time shifting), plus dozens of lines of dialog that set the scene for Act 2 of the story, plus buy-in and approvals from the band and their representatives... basically, the quality bar has been set in a way that makes it extraordinarily difficult to release even a single world. We have done a lot of the work for Night City (and Gauntlet), and we've worked on streamlining that process so subsequent worlds can be released a at a far quicker pace than the addition of the 5th world, but there's no feasibly way to follow that in-game, so of course it feels like no progress is made, even if that's far from the truth.
• Characters, not features, make the money: We're not interested in making $5 entry fees for features for a variety of reasons,* and thus the real revenue stream for the game will always come from getting and improving new characters (for collection purposes, for PVE optimizations, for PVP competitiveness, etc). Since we need to make money to continue to exist (since the game is free to download, and many people spend either nothing or very little even after playing for a year or more), we have to make sure enough of our man power for a given month is working on initiatives that keep enough money flowing in that we can keep the lights on, and can grow the business to the point where we can spend time on other initiatives that improve the business. I really can't get into a whole lot more specifics than that, but I assure you no one on the development team (or even the publishing team) is driving to the office in Ferraris.

*And no, spending on Sands of Time and Sands of War of course is part of our revenue plans, but they don't hold a candle to anything directly related to characters, and they likely never will.

Just want to try another spin on this. As some of you know I am a casual player these days and don't play the game every day. I should know this but I can't remember but is the only way to get Frontier Coins is by opening Eternal Souls? If it is then how is a casual player who doesn't play Arena supposed to get this character? The only way I can see is to buy 2 of the expensive store packs. So, do I pay $200 to get this new Eddie or, keep my money in my pocket, wait until October and spend half that amount on Red Dead Recemption 2 for my PS4 and get loads more fun with that? Sorry NF - you lose :-/

Yup clarified the other two major sources (Trooper Souls and Lilith Souls). There will also be other ways of getting Frontier Coins in the future (in addition to them being rarely featured in events); Mercifal pointed out some likely candidates. But yes, a more casual player will absolutely take longer to get an end-game reward like this compared to someone playing very actively, and that's to be expected for a long term goal that's targeted towards rewarding activity and optimizations for end-game players that have already collected the Troopers, the Liliths, the Alchemist, etc.

[Yup]

200 dollar Eddie?

It's not though.. it's $200 for 5000 ironite, 2000 iron coins, 10 skill shards, a guaranteed New Eddie, Plus 2 4/5 star class characters, 2 sets of 5 class-specific Rare souls, and $500,000 gold.

I agree if it was JUST an Eddie for $200 it would be laughable. But there's more value in the purchases.

[Mercifal]

Mercifal pointed out some likely candidates.

This is very good news. Knowing that there is / might be planned a different ways to earn FC will calm down some voices that complain about the length of gaining 2,5k just to get Alexander Eddie.

Aye, but that's the key: we don't have a release date for those. Or more accurately, we do internally... but it's changed numerous times, and there's no assurance it won't again if some other obstacle (business, personnel, etc) comes up, so I don't want to give false hope by putting out a specific date that has a high likelihood of changing. [...] Game companies don't disclose specifics because they know players will ream them if anything gets delayed. And since internal delays happen a lot in this industry... game companies are secretive about exact dates.

Well ... It depends (mainly from the community), but I think that some leaks from time to time would soften the tension among players regarding, "lack of content", like this one or something similar.

[Amarthir]

To be honest, the Mythical soul packs have fantastic worth in their value, If I could have it my way, I would replace the $99 special ironite pack in the store for it. Having it be a permanent addition instead of one legendary soul and some amount of rare souls would probably give more incentive to buy it. And since it's only a once a month thing, you wouldn't get too much too quickly.

[Nicko]

It's not though.. it's $200 for 5000 ironite, 2000 iron coins, 10 skill shards, a guaranteed New Eddie, Plus 2 4/5 star class characters, 2 sets of 5 class-specific Rare souls, and $500,000 gold.

I agree if it was JUST an Eddie for $200 it would be laughable. But there's more value in the purchases.

That's true Yup. And value is always relative. Some people find value in designer labels - and are willing to pay 3x the price of another item because there is a little polo player on it. The more expensive a car gets the poorer the "value". But there's plenty of people driving Mercedes.

And how about hours of enjoyment? I look at my Comcast bill each month and shriek - especially considering I don't watch much TV. I spend a lot more time playing - or chatting with friends - about LotB. So one could argue it would make more sense to put dollars there.

And finally income. Someone making $30,000 may faint at the site of these packs - someone making $200,000 may buy all of them and not blink.

Ultimately this is a business - and Sparton gave a very honest and thoughtful response above. I'm sure there are skilled people looking at potential return on investment of all this stuff and even though some of the prices may infuriate the ftp player it is what it is. Free to play doesn't necessarily mean equal to the payed experience - or as i posted earlier - why the heck would anyone pay? I know a lot of excellent players who have kept their investments very minimal and received a lot of value from this game, so all in all it's been pretty fair.

There have been some efforts to bring some reasonably priced items like the 30 day Ironite pack. If the return on them is good - and people are buying them - we'll get more. If not - we won't see them and the bigger spenders will be targeted. Basic economics.

Sparton - you mentioned character releases keep the game running and I doubt that was a secret to anyone. But - those collectors will likely atrophy if it's not balanced with new challenges. I'm sure I'm not saying anything everyone isn't aware of - but I think the game is walking a dangerous tightrope right now. In any event, thanks for the transparency. Yes - it was obvious you guys were trying some new things - and the only way we learn is by doing exactly that - repeating the successes and learning from the mistakes. Onward and upward...

[GrimDusk]

Frontier coins can be obtained free, think long term goals guys

Dude you cannot honestly say that this is a “long term goal.” Fuck that.

[slauki]

i know you guys are/were working on ads. if you let the players choose if they want to watch them (for random rewards), this could provide some extra $$$ i guess. curious why this was not implemented yet, this might give you more room to maneuver. sure it's a business and even if content doesn't provide you that much money it's needed to keep players on board. we are a very small group of players and many have left and many more will leave. not many more fish are there i feel, maybe the tour will help, maybe it won't. there is a limit to everyone, even the most loyal and hardcore ones will pull the trigger if the only thing you can offer them is playing powerslave mindlessly over and over.

i don't blame you guys personally i like your behaviour. your responses kept many guys in, despite the game not being that good at all, if we want to be honest. it just has the iron maiden theme and a lot of potential which seems unused. the last months lead me to the conclusion that the "desperation mode" was turned on and that not much will change at all...
everyone can ask himself what will happend if night city comes out or gauntlet. yeah exitement for how long, 2 weeks, 3 days or ony a few hours? that's what many of us needed to complete BNW as it was released. and what's next, waiting another year for the silent planet? we want the game to succeed but if i read something positive here it's just wishful thinking that has no connection to the things we could observe for 1,5 years now....so basicly we are lying to ourselves because we don't want to face the reality. nothing will change regardless of night city, regardles of gauntlet regardless of silent planet and regardless of some random chars/talismans for random prices.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Sparton - you mentioned character releases keep the game running and I doubt that was a secret to anyone. But - those collectors will likely atrophy if it's not balanced with new challenges. I'm sure I'm not saying anything everyone isn't aware of - but I think the game is walking a dangerous tightrope right now.

It's absolutely a tricky balance, and that's why Kaz and I have been trying to generate as much possible play space with the tools we have, or at least with minimal assistance to add or improve on what we have from artists and programmers (so that they can continue to focus on bug fixes and new content like Night City). That's how stuff like Event Challenges were born, and I think we've started to find interesting ways to remix requirements and timelines for that to give at least of bit of a different "new challenge" kind of feel as an imperfect in-between, but it's definitely not the end-goal in and of itself, for sure.

[Yup]

Honestly Sparton.. the newer grind events which are more akin to achievements... .. like "use all warrior for X" do indeed offer a bit of a "new" factor to the old worlds. It also causes one to look are rarely used characters possibly. The last "Beast with Warrior" made me realize I have no warriors that can grant immunity other than Trooper Eddie. So sure enough when the W Golden Son and W Pyro Soldier dropped this past week I kept them rather than throwing the back into the mixer which I've been doing for months. These are MUCH more interesting that the 150-300-400+ Arena wins events.