December 2018 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Shaolin85london]

finally will stop seeing this boring defences in PVP:HE,Alchenist,M.Lilith and Sekhmet...

Lost 5 times against Gremlin.

5 different powerful teams annihilated

Pretty much he went first 4/5

Summarizing: HE perform basic stun, repeat, repeat, alchemist, 4x magus Lilith trigger, Sekmeth Fury, repeat...

This is fucking ridiculous!

5th I went first, ofc m Lilith casted invincibility so I could not do nothing about, HE perform power disable passive, alchemist, m Lilith 5 hit times Sekmeth Fury.. Repeat

Fuck this Totally bugged and out of control team, can't wait for the nerf!

[Stormseye]

Lost 5 times against Gremlin.

5 different powerful teams annihilated

Pretty much he went first 4/5

Summarizing: HE perform basic stun, repeat, repeat, alchemist, 4x magus Lilith trigger, Sekmeth Fury, repeat...

This is fucking ridiculous!

5th I went first, ofc m Lilith casted invincibility so I could not do nothing about, HE perform power disable passive, alchemist, m Lilith 5 hit times Sekmeth Fury.. Repeat

Fuck this Totally bugged and out of control team, can't wait for the nerf!

Just think about all the players that don't have your relics or roster and still have to compete against this build. Went 1-4 today against the same build different player. Does not matter whether I go first or not the result is always the same. The Magus Lillith is the still biggest issue for me.

[Blade]

Extra rounds & relics!
The scaling of the Fury is not designed for the new features of the game. Do you still remember the times without Relics and even without Guard Shields? Fury used to be a rare thing!
The nerf to M Lilith and the changed counting of accuracy UP is definitely important, but is that really enough? I would be open to a general adjustment of the Fury scaling.

[druid138]

The scaling of the Fury is not designed for the new features of the game. Do you still remember the times without Relics and even without Guard Shields? Fury used to be a rare thing!

I think you are exactly right, Blade!

[Stormseye]

Fury became an issue with the rise of Iron Eddie and Guard talismans. Coupled at the same time with the release of Primordials. Fury became a huge factor in how we play the Arena now. One of my three attack builds is based entirely on getting Fury.

[Muzzleloader]

With the addition of relics, the top arena players can have a fury each round especially if they have gunner toons. That may be why they nerfed DDE. Since they nerfed DDE I was surprised they didn't go after PoMs fury.

This is why I suggested a toon that specifically blocks a single toons fury like disable passive works. This would be a counter against fury, but would not block all opponents fury. It would not be silence and would still allow power moves.

[rags-6094]

But there are already and have been for a long time talisman that will steal fury, characters of recent times that can steal or zero the opponents fury, I just figured people don't use them much because they come at the expense of Angel Talisman or something more favourable?

[Cefiar]

Stealing fury only helps if they haven't max'ed it out. Once the fury meter is full, you can't steal from it anymore.

[trooper206]

So glad for the nerfing of the 3 characters that rule the extra boring defense teams in the arena, bugging us over gauntlet, but at the same time sad, because HE is one of my favorite Eddies in the game (music related).
Nerfing of the Magus Lilith is a key IF it works the way it is supposed to, as I am certain the well known defense teams will continue to be there.
Guys ok, I mean...Don't start asking NF to nerf every character in the game... At least we should allow some creative thinking and some strategy to be created.
Good to see Eternity Eddie getting some boost, and the fun characters like deers and snowmen getting some essence value, which may mean we will get some candy for sacrifice .

[Blade]

Fury became an issue with the rise of Iron Eddie and Guard talismans. Coupled at the same time with the release of Primordials. Fury became a huge factor in how we play the Arena now. One of my three attack builds is based entirely on getting Fury.

Thanks for adding this! I also wanted to include Iron Eddie, but I think this was a different story as his fury made it possible to be refilled every round BUT Guard Shield and/or several Gunner Talis were needed to fill the Fury in the first place.
I also appreciate your last sentence, because it is about strategy! Yes, strategy! This game was about strategy, combinations, counters and synergies once before.
And we can add angle Talisman to the list of things that mess up with the fury generation. I think the average number of gunner Talis per PvP team as increased significantly in 2018 compared to everything before. 5 is somewhat the minimum, up to 11 is found regularly.

@muzzle: yes, I remember your post about that ability! A very good idea, but as cleanse is so wide spread currently it would not really help I fear

@rags: have you tried to go with 1 or 2 thief sets against "the" current teams? Would be interesting to see...maybe I will play around against my own defense. Still I think the amount of fury generated with each action (including the extra turns) per round will be more than what you can remove by thief, but that's just a guessing.

Back to the tuning: I think the nerf migh be not strong enough but maybe it is planned to go in 2 or 3 steps because we all can agree that it should not be the normal case that one update turns the table completely, right?
The new Talis in the shop will bring some more fairness, which is fine. Of course there are a lot of characters that should see some buffs, so there is a lot of options in the future. But now it is all about Night City and some really nice and rewarding christmas events!
Last thought: In general I am missing some work on the still not correctly working mechanics with counter Talisman and most of the shields! I think this should have quite some proirity for 2019 as it is there for some longer time now and it is a real flaw deep in the game mechanic that should be addressed! Also a couple of other bugs might be related to this.