Suspect Discussion: Prisoner

[scott-5496]

I do just wonder if this is all about those who have him and those who do not? I have him but not used him and not in PVP yet so no ideas as to his importance but what I can see is that (as others pointed out) he is quite rare and he has not much else at all going for him other than the passive? So I can see why he works well in PVP and I can see how he works well in grind. If you mess with the passive it ruins both aspects of the game surely? So really it is why have this toon if you remove the only thing he is good for? Or am I missing something?

If there are special talismans or a revised passive on a different character that can help against a Prisoner why not do that as that means he stays as is for everyone. If the future of the game is PVP (not so sure that it is if new content comes out in the shape of new worlds or other new content) then Prisoner (being quite rare) should still be available as he is I think.....or if the consensus id to nerf him then he needs some other boost to what he does on other attacks or passives I think.

I am sure there are other characters that have the limelight in PVP but not much idea as not played it yet - so if Prisoner gets hit then does other strong PVP toons need to come next and if so which ones? Red troll, hellhound, red bat.......?

[Frost]

I do just wonder if this is all about those who have him and those who do not? I have him but not used him and not in PVP yet so no ideas as to his importance but what I can see is that (as others pointed out) he is quite rare and he has not much else at all going for him other than the passive? So I can see why he works well in PVP and I can see how he works well in grind. If you mess with the passive it ruins both aspects of the game surely? So really it is why have this toon if you remove the only thing he is good for? Or am I missing something?

If there are special talismans or a revised passive on a different character that can help against a Prisoner why not do that as that means he stays as is for everyone. If the future of the game is PVP (not so sure that it is if new content comes out in the shape of new worlds or other new content) then Prisoner (being quite rare) should still be available as he is I think.....or if the consensus id to nerf him then he needs some other boost to what he does on other attacks or passives I think.

I am sure there are other characters that have the limelight in PVP but not much idea as not played it yet - so if Prisoner gets hit then does other strong PVP toons need to come next and if so which ones? Red troll, hellhound, red bat.......?

All other toons that seen to be OP are not in fact. They all have means of countering, be it cleanses, buff removal, etc. Prisoner has NO counter. And he's not that rare, see a previous post I made: outta 10 players 8 have him.

[mikmar]

All right, but nobody want to make The Prisoner a useless char that will sit on the bench forever because the best power that he has will be removed.
He is a 5* char and he is a good char only for his passive capability.
So my opinion is to mantain his passive power in campaign mode and to change it in the Arena in a way that I don't know.
I don't like new talismans only to counter on him.
Another idea : make the Cop character that have the power to put the Prisoner in jail again

[Frost]

All right, but nobody want to make The Prisoner a useless char that will sit on the bench forever because the best power that he has will be removed.
He is a 5* char and he is a good char only for his passive capability.
So my opinion is to mantain his passive power in campaign mode and to change it in the Arena in a way that I don't know.
I don't like new talismans only to counter on him.
Another idea : make the Cop character that have the power to put the Prisoner in jail again

Nobody wants this. We just want to make it so he's not mandatory and don't break the game like he's doing now.

[mikmar]

Nobody wants this. We just want to make it so he's not mandatory and don't break the game like he's doing now.

Yes, we need a Cop for him I think.
If we don't want to introduce a new char that can stop him, we may think to give to an available char (Droids ?? Soldiers ??) a way to fight against him

[CanyptianFit]

Don't have a prisoner, I'm in PVP.

Thoughts on talisman solution.

1. Make this "special talisman" universal like blind/freeze.
- will neuter the prisoner, don't care what the requirements are, very bad idea. Setup 4 toon attack team with talismans and destroy.

2. Make frequency so that it is a one-off like meteor/comet and a 3 set. Maybe 1 time gift to players as they enter PVP for first time. Assume it is a 3 set, and blue with 1 arcane, 1 power, 1 sorcery. [I won't get us started on comet discussion ] I would put the 3 set on mummy Eddie or green allied soldier, after first prisoner team hit, this character would have immunity, and hopefully alive, cleanse team and destroy. Still as a single 3 set, this would neuter prisoner. No matter the color, a 3 set would neuter the prisoner.

3. Make the frequency a one-off gift, and make it a 4 set. If the color of the 4 set Is green or blue, use approach above, and destroy. A 4 set of yellow or red, that might work? Purple not good idea. This again addresses the prisoner as a defender.

We've largely discussed him as a defender, but his value on offense is equally a challenge. Maybe more so. Having him on the offense probably guarantees a win given the lack of perfects possible on defense side.

I still believe the best adjustment is a tweak were his passive also affects him for the first round. Not much unlike Vision Eddies Fury move and the stun. Leaving his passive beyond the first round is still highly valuable and provides competitive advantage...keeping him 5* Ish. His "Cop" is another prisoner.

I'm with Nicko again, in that the community gravitates toward the character with the most advantage. The prisoner is a hard character to come by, and for all those that spend time/money to try and get him and do so, they should have his advantage. Too much nerfing and like Nicko asserts, we will all move to the next toon and the outrage will continue. The argument that we want to see many varieties of defenses at the top might not ever happen.

I, again yesterday, went second against a top 10 team with Prisoner/Perfect Hit Passive and won. Skin of my teeth, but I pulled it off. This just to prove that as the attacker it is possible to win, and any nerf should be subtle/slight. (Reduce Prisoner win rate when he goes first from 95% to like 70-80% or something?). Any significant adjustment neuters him. I don't have him, wish I had him, but I spend my time/effort other ways.

At the end of the day we need to keep him a 5*. Any talisman solution needs to be well thought out. Solution should address him on both attack and defense side, and be gentle. Not a easy answer.

PS. Sorry, mates, if I attack you, nothing personal.

Thanks again Devs for the discussion. Hoping we get to the right solution/balance.

[Roquetas-5312]

Where are you getting the win rates from mine is like 15-20pct in defense so nerf him so I lose 100 pct as I don't have cg red bat warrior troll hellhound ad corrupt droid tail gunner Eddie ggs
I feel I should lose my 5 star character because other people don't have him so please please take him away

[konstifik]

I didn't have time to read the whole thread, so I'm sorry if this have already been suggested and discussed, but another way to balance The Prisoner would be to apply the passive block to his own team as well. So if you have him on your team, none of your passives will apply. This would not make him useless, specially not in the defensive team, and he would still be useful in PVE, but it would take away the OP combinations such as Prisoner+Red Troll.

[Nicko]

I didn't have time to read the whole thread, so I'm sorry if this have already been suggested and discussed, but another way to balance The Prisoner would be to apply the passive block to his own team as well. So if you have him on your team, none of your passives will apply. This would not make him useless, specially not in the defensive team, and he would still be useful in PVE, but it would take away the OP combinations such as Prisoner+Red Troll.

This has been suggested a couple times. I really like the way CanyptianFit framed it; affecting both teams first round only. Gives the opposing team equal ground in the first round and then maintains some of his specialness after by only affecting other team. Great idea

[Sag7272]

This has been suggested a couple times. I really like the way CanyptianFit framed it; affecting both teams first round only. Gives the opposing team equal ground in the first round and then maintains some of his specialness after by only affecting other team. Great idea

I also think it's an interesting middle ground to keep him powerful & useful while excluding some of the most deadly combo for one turn, giving defense time to prepare...