February 2018 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Amarthir]

I dunno why you guys are upset over Eda's changes. Golden buffs are now extendable and she's still damn good at extending them. So is SoL Eddie, so you can still keep that perfect immunity like you did before.

I'm not sure where you guys think you can steal golden buffs, I just re-read the patch notes and nowhere does it say you can steal them. In Perfect Immunity, it says there's a fix for not preventing the sealing of buffs. Meaning if you have PI and another buff, you won't be able to steal the other buff anymore.

[JJJ428]

Read the update to vision eddies moves he now has the ability to steal golden buffs. Thinking I might just take vision Eddie to the top of the arena again.

[Mariner-1212]

Read the update to vision eddies moves he now has the ability to steal golden buffs. Thinking I might just take vision Eddie to the top of the arena again.

It's been said before, but it's really true that every toon is just one buff away from being the king, and you never know who's going to get the honors each month. Looking forward to seeing what your Visions Ed can do, might inspire me to shard him up.

[Amarthir]

Well good for Visions Eddie to be an efficient counter to someone with PI and Endure. But I believe what I meant was EVERYONE wouldn't be able to steal or remove golden effects. It'll make Visions Eddie someone I'd want to use for once. Too bad I sacrificed him long ago. Really too bad, I've pulled him 3 times since the beginning.

Speaking of the beginning my one year "anniversary" for this game is around now so damn, this game sure has changed since then.

[Roadkillsuperman]

I dunno why you guys are upset over Eda's changes. Golden buffs are now extendable and she's still damn good at extending them. So is SoL Eddie, so you can still keep that perfect immunity like you did before.

I'm not sure where you guys think you can steal golden buffs, I just re-read the patch notes and nowhere does it say you can steal them. In Perfect Immunity, it says there's a fix for not preventing the sealing of buffs. Meaning if you have PI and another buff, you won't be able to steal the other buff anymore.

Visions Eddie updates on Clutch and Take “Steal beneficial effect, including golden buffs”.
Samurai Eddie update on Cyclone Shield “removes immunity effects...including perfect immunity “

[zamasu]

I think people are misunderstanding the "yellow buff"

You won't be able to steal it. Currently, you can still BLUE buffs even if a character has a perfect immunity ("Yellow buff"). The update will fix this issue to prevent BLUE buffs to be stolen when PI is present

[Sparton_LOTB]

I'm not a huge gamer, so even after some cursory google searching the terms "base damage" and "damage scaling" don't mean anything to me. It looks like Gunner Child is getting a nerf, is this indeed the case? Could someone be ever so kind and briefly explain those terms to me?

"Base damage" refers to the amount of damage that character does based on the appropriate stats, but before accounting for improvements from skill shards.

"Damage scaling" refers to increases in damage based on the skill levels earned from investing skill shards.

Basically, from the last tuning update, the Gunner Child of the Damned was intended to be able to do fairly strong damage against foes with very high Attack and Magic (ie Anti-Assassin), but only reasonable damage against other foes. However, the scaling was not at a place to do that, and instead did strong damage against everyone and really strong damage against Assassins. This change will make her damage closer to other AoE attackers against foes with middling or low offensive stats.

all in all the changes look very reasonable on paper. just one thing i'm missing: would be interested to hear your opinion about 7th son eddie. don't you guys think, some tweaks would be fine there too?
yeah i get the problem of him being released currently, but for the sake of the pvp guys please adjust some of his broken parts. interesting that no dev ever commented on the concerns about him, would be cool if you'd be the first...

We haven't really commented on it because we want to be careful about commenting on very new characters.

Before releasing a character, we use that character in our test environments in a variety of situations to help find synergies and counters. We start a lot of our experiments based on a combination of our own experience in the live game, plus taking inspiration from other players' teams and strategies. As such, there's a lot of times where we see complaints and concerns from players that we know counters or strategies for, but we want the community to arrive at those on our own (or better prove that our theories are insufficient answers).

The short answer is we see Seventh Son Eddie as a strong new Eddie, but not one in need of direct changes at this time (the existence of more answers to deal with golden positive effects is, in a way, an indirect nerf).

one further question, can we expect the gauntlet this time?

Not yet.

I have to agree with Zerynx about Eda. Sounds like she's getting benched, especially if that one round works the same way as it does for the prisoner. With golden buffs now being able to be stolen, the only thing she offers is a way for the opposing team to steal infinite perfect immunity.

I think people are misunderstanding the "yellow buff"

You won't be able to steal it. Currently, you can still BLUE buffs even if a character has a perfect immunity ("Yellow buff"). The update will fix this issue to prevent BLUE buffs to be stolen when PI is present

This has already been clarified by a few others, but just to reiterate, keep in mind that golden positive effects can only be stolen by characters that clearly indicate they can steal golden effects (such as Visions Eddie after these changes go live), which is a small subset of existing characters that can steal or remove effects. Warrior Undead Rescuer is not directly nabbing Perfect Immunity, Perfect Immortality, Ascension, etc any time soon.

This is in addition to the fix for the issue where characters that cannot normally steal golden positive effects were stealing other effects that characters with Perfect Immunity had.

[ShaneBazTe]

Please sort out the timing issue with Navigator Eddie soon, it's been too long

[Ezz]

This is the main post to discuss tuning changes that are in an upcoming update.

You can see the details for the preliminary tuning adjustments in the Game Updates forum post.

Still no fix for red bat passive? Is it safe to assume it will never be fixed at this point?
If so maybe it’s best to just change his passive description to “randomly grants extra turns to entire team”.

[Sparton_LOTB]

Please sort out the timing issue with Navigator Eddie soon, it's been too long

Not sure if it will make it into this release, but Kaz said he'll look into it. I don't know how exactly the interaction timing system is set up in code and data, but from what I understand it's quite finicky, which is why we haven't been able to get many fixes out for these kinds of bugs.

Still no fix for red bat passive? Is it safe to assume it will never be fixed at this point?

We originally planned to have it fixed for this update, but our initial work on it had a lot of edge cases which wouldn't have been properly covered due to the way we tried to fix it. It is something we're focusing on for the update after the next one; it just requires more fundamental system work to get the fix to a place we'd be happy with.

On the plus side, it's likely to also fix a bunch of other passive oddities.