Trooper Store Limits... the Final Nail in the Coffin...

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Originally Posted by PerthEddie

I am in the same boat. I currently am sitting on 115K Trooper points. I already have 80 skill shards in my inventory so I could buy another 23 shards (I do have some chars I want to skill shards up) or, like Kris says, blow the lot on G/A Souls and have a 99% chance of getting bugger all. The fact we are both thinking like this is a sad indictment of the game's RNG that we both think we will waste our points by doing this :(

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Actually your junk drop rate is 99.99%. Just wanted to clear that up.

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Originally Posted by DaveMurray

How exactly are they more generous when you open 200-500 souls and get only 3*?

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We are considering ways to implement roll protection so a string of unlucky pulls is less likely, but there is no final plan for that as of yet.

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Originally Posted by mjmxiii

Hey Kaz, are these Trooper souls going to be in line with Eternal souls (in the sense that it will be a small pool of characters that give us a much higher drop rate like the 25% chance on the Eternals and are also worthy of the time invested) or is it going to be more like the BNW and Xmas souls style where a bunch of diff souls have a chance of dropping with a higher chance for Troop Ed?

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They will be like the Eternal Soul with a pool of powerful characters, including Trooper Eddie. Trooper Eddie, for most people, will be the chase character in their mind (as that's the only character they currently know to be in there), but there are some other really strong units in that soul that will likely gain popularity as well.

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

We are considering ways to implement roll protection so a string of unlucky pulls is less likely, but there is no final plan for that as of yet.



They will be like the Eternal Soul with a pool of powerful characters, including Trooper Eddie. Trooper Eddie, for most people, will be the chase character in their mind (as that's the only character they currently know to be in there), but there are some other really strong units in that soul that will likely gain popularity as well.

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Kaz, the ball is rolling on the Trooper Eddie soul. With the current state of the RNG, if it becomes a waste of time "chasing" Trooper Eddie you will have a full scale revolt. Please have your team consider making the first pull the Trooper Eddie, as Patrice suggestsd, then pulling the rest in the pool.

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Originally Posted by kkkreg5

Kaz, the ball is rolling on the Trooper Eddie soul. With the current state of the RNG, if it becomes a waste of time "chasing" Trooper Eddie you will have a full scale revolt. Please have your team consider making the first pull the Trooper Eddie, as Patrice suggestsd, then pulling the rest in the pool.

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Pretty much agree. I don't care if the rest of the toons on the small pool will even be better than Trooper Eddie. It's just that we want him first!

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Originally Posted by kkkreg5

Kaz, the ball is rolling on the Trooper Eddie soul. With the current state of the RNG, if it becomes a waste of time "chasing" Trooper Eddie you will have a full scale revolt. Please have your team consider making the first pull the Trooper Eddie, as Patrice suggestsd, then pulling the rest in the pool.

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Originally Posted by DaveMurray

Pretty much agree. I don't care if the rest of the toons on the small pool will even be better than Trooper Eddie. It's just that we want him first!

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The Trooper Soul and Eternity Souls specifically WILL have a form of roll protection when the Trooper Soul launches. I was speaking more generally about all other souls with that comment. That does not mean you will get Trooper Eddie on your first roll. It just means that after a few rolls you can choose to get him or any of the other characters from there directly. So some people will get him first time, others won't. But after a few pulls they can choose to get whatever characters they are missing.

-Kaz

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

The Trooper Soul and Eternity Souls specifically WILL have a form of roll protection when the Trooper Soul launches. I was speaking more generally about all other souls with that comment. That does not mean you will get Trooper Eddie on your first roll. It just means that after a few rolls you can choose to get him or any of the other characters from there directly. So some people will get him first time, others won't. But after a few pulls they can choose to get whatever characters they are missing.

-Kaz

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I still stand by my suggestion as after waiting for over a year a revolt will break if we do not get him on the first roll and with weekly limits will have to wait months for another shot... Why not making us happy on this one ;-)

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

The Trooper Soul and Eternity Souls specifically WILL have a form of roll protection when the Trooper Soul launches. I was speaking more generally about all other souls with that comment. That does not mean you will get Trooper Eddie on your first roll. It just means that after a few rolls you can choose to get him or any of the other characters from there directly. So some people will get him first time, others won't. But after a few pulls they can choose to get whatever characters they are missing.

-Kaz

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After rolling 3 Beelzebubs since the beginning of the Eternals and feeling that disappointment, if it were to happen with Trooper Eddie I would probably quit the game and I'm not even "chasing" him. Others will definitely quit. This cannot be what NF wants. Please take this into consideration.

It seems that NF is listening, but it feels as though the decision has been made.

sorry guys don't wanna be a backstabber, but don't understand the hype about trooper eddie. in the end we have enough cool eddies, but some strong allies woule be more interesting for me. imagine trooper eddie is so powerfull like the mighty mystic eddie...well i wouldn't care to drop him much if other allies are powerhouses.

And oh man, some kind of roll protection would be awesome...
this would finally be a great feature, that would make everyone happy. pick a char afre 100 rares and 50 g/a or 50 special souls for example.

All the troopers in the eternity souls are excellent, really looking forward to trooper souls and what to grind for.

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

We don't generally adjust the drop rates of souls outside of events, which focus on increasing the odds, not reducing them. The most I can tell you is that the drop rates currently are actually much more generous than they were at the game's launch.

-Kaz

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Either way G/A souls are terrible. Red eyes once a year, if even. I literally just used some and all crap as usual.

Kaz,

I'm sure I can speak for a lot of people here. If I don't get trooper Eddie after saving for months, and then have to wait 5 more weeks to try again to not get him I will be extremely disappointed.

Hell, I am pissed off just thinking about it, cause I know it will happen.

At this point I don't even care what the other characters are. Trooper eddie is everyones favorite.

He is literally the reason I wanted to play in the first place, and you guys made me wait 2 years, and now I'm finding out I probably wont ever get him. I might as well quit now then, right? Should I just quit today Kaz?

this is a terrible idea..trooper eddie should be an achievement to earn not chasing at a chance thats BS! imo: should be implemented like GRE at x trooper point's get gold at y points get ironite ect until the player earns him, the whole save fragment and soul events are a mess and as stated by the majority of the us we'll up n leave if you get it wrong....again

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

We don't generally adjust the drop rates of souls outside of events, which focus on increasing the odds, not reducing them. The most I can tell you is that the drop rates currently are actually much more generous than they were at the game's launch.

-Kaz

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Good evening, Kaz :)


That's an interesting statement, I have to say... I have totally different experience, sadly... Though, before I'll give some examples - one humble asking first:
Cut this BS, and STOP LYING, DEVS!, please... I am NOT an idiot, who swallows every word you say, because you say so... So you really don't have to make a fool of me (and so others all around)... Thank you :)
I don't blame you, though... You can't say anything different in the name of protecting your ass and so your business, that's pretty clear...

One word of explanation before I start: in below example focused on gaining just 5* characters from Rare Souls to everything look more clear...

Example #1: - comparing the ''Past'' and ''Present'' as for how many dropped characters:

During the first six months of play LOTB I've gathered such 5* characters as follows:

Alliance General
Corrupt General
Nomad (x3)
Viking Eddie

vs.

During the next the same period:

Shaman Eddie (which somehow should be excluded as got him during ''anniversary weekend'' where drops were totally different...)
Mystic Eddie

Opening (arguably) more or less the same amount of souls during these periods of time - in the past there were better drops of souls in LOL dungeons, later we could get them off achievements and so sacfifice as well... So I guess everything's more or less balanced... And we have 6>1(2)... Which logically allows me to think that droprates were LOT better in the past, than they are now...

Example #2:

Comparing the chances of dropping decent characters - again - ''Past'' and ''Present'':

1. 30th of January 2017: opening 22 Rare Souls from various places: LOLs, achievements etc. (I like to know when and what I am getting, at least for the decent stuff - so I CAN give the source... Pitty that you not implemented such option to your game to let the people know since when they have such toon - again no surprise - better not to pi*s off people reminding them how long they might be waiting for certain character to get, since they've started playing, eh?

The drops were as follows:

Viking (5*)
Pyro Soldier (4*)
Sentinel Soulless Demon (4*)

***

(The rest: 3* ''invaders'')... I could say - pretty decent, if you ask me...

vs.

2. 19th of July 2017: sacrifice reward - 50 Rare Souls opened:

Allied Bomber Boy (4*)

***

(The rest: 3* ''invaders'')... No comments needed, really...

So... How do you explain this amazing phenomenon has occured while I was having less souls (=less chances of getting decent character) and actually I've got lot more of them and the better ones (5*), than having almost 2x more souls and got hardly nothing in the end? Thanks...

Again... 3/22 > 1/50... Correct?

So what's your PROOFS to support your words, Kaz against mine (and probably some other forum members having the same sad experiences - who might be even opened a LOT more souls than I did to get noting but crap - which sounds even worse for you as you speak about your ''generosity'', TBH)?

Care (and dare) to show the community some solid, reliable data (% chances of droppings each level characters, % chances of getting duplicates, etc.)... Nothing to loose, really (if they are so good and generous, as you claiming);) Even for the fact to shut me up :) I bet everyobody would be happy to see them... I am SURE you have such info, yet sooner die, lads than publish anything would confirm that the droprates are BEYOND Mariana Trench... Period.

Cheers,

W

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Originally Posted by Witkacy

So... How do you explain this amazing phenomenon has occured while I was having less souls (=less chances of getting decent character) and actually I've got lot more of them and the better ones (5*), than having almost 2x more souls and got hardly nothing in the end?
W

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Well, there is really only one explanation for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

In terms of how the system works, we set the odds for various star levels or rewards to drop and that's it. We do tune the drops in the dungeons as needed. But again, don't touch the souls outside of increasing the odds of specific characters in event souls. There's no magic or anything else going on. If you could simulate hundreds of pulls you'd get pretty clear results in terms of the average number of natural 3*characters, vs 4*, vs 5* per 100 summons.

-Kaz

Well, i'm pretty damn pissed off now.

Twice today LoL froze on auto play. This time it was on my last SoT (which I payed ironite for a refill, and was going to do again.)

I should get 5 fragments for every freeze and glitch. And so should everyone else, not only do I waste my time waiting hoping it will eventually unfreeze, but also wasted SoT and no trooper points. Fucking ridiculous man.

I'd like an answer now, should I just quit today?

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

Well, there is really only one explanation for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

In terms of how the system works, we set the odds for various star levels or rewards to drop and that's it. We do tune the drops in the dungeons as needed. But again, don't touch the souls outside of increasing the odds of specific characters in event souls. There's no magic or anything else going on. If you could simulate hundreds of pulls you'd get pretty clear results in terms of the average number of natural 3*characters, vs 4*, vs 5* per 100 summons.

-Kaz

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As usual I get ignored again. I'll take that as a yes

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

Well, there is really only one explanation for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

In terms of how the system works, we set the odds for various star levels or rewards to drop and that's it. We do tune the drops in the dungeons as needed. But again, don't touch the souls outside of increasing the odds of specific characters in event souls. There's no magic or anything else going on. If you could simulate hundreds of pulls you'd get pretty clear results in terms of the average number of natural 3*characters, vs 4*, vs 5* per 100 summons.

-Kaz

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I believe what Witkacy means is that we all want to know exactly what kinds of percentages there actually are to get 4 and 5* souls. I myself would also like to know because the community has had to figure out from our own experiences what kinds of RNG this game has and it's never just and exact number. After all, you can spend 50 souls and get 2 5* and 4 4* characters, and then spend another 50 and get only 3*. When you spend a high enough number you have to be assured that at least one soul will be more than 3 stars, but many people have come out with nothing to benefit from it. So it stands to reason that if we knew what the actual percentage was, we could do a better job on planning to get better characters. It would also keep us from investing in something that we know won't work out, this game is like a casino, we see all the pretty lights and we want to keep playing. But we lose more than we win and that's our problem.

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

They will be like the Eternal Soul with a pool of powerful characters, including Trooper Eddie. Trooper Eddie, for most people, will be the chase character in their mind (as that's the only character they currently know to be in there), but there are some other really strong units in that soul that will likely gain popularity as well.

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Kaz,
This is not the point. Myself, I would probably wan't one of the other characters in the pool first. That being said, You must understand that a huge percentage of Maiden fans discovered this band by the song 'The Trooper'. It has been well over a year, likely a year and half before this finally comes out. It is not something that I would revolt about but at the same time I would expect nothing less from the community. There is a certain lore attached to Trooper Eddie and your entire player base feels that this character should be awarded for time served here and they are right. A lot of these guys are my troopers and I don't want to lose any of them because of a bad decision. As much as all the nerfing of great characters to make it too easy to win in arena pisses me off, I usually don't come here to complain about it but there is no other way to say anything about making people wait any longer than necessary for Trooper Eddie. This would likely be the worst decision you guys could make!

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Originally Posted by Amarthir

I believe what Witkacy means is that we all want to know exactly what kinds of percentages there actually are to get 4 and 5* souls. I myself would also like to know because the community has had to figure out from our own experiences what kinds of RNG this game has and it's never just and exact number. After all, you can spend 50 souls and get 2 5* and 4 4* characters, and then spend another 50 and get only 3*. When you spend a high enough number you have to be assured that at least one soul will be more than 3 stars, but many people have come out with nothing to benefit from it. So it stands to reason that if we knew what the actual percentage was, we could do a better job on planning to get better characters. It would also keep us from investing in something that we know won't work out, this game is like a casino, we see all the pretty lights and we want to keep playing. But we lose more than we win and that's our problem.

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Unfortunately, I'm not at liberty to disclose those values. But I will say it's not very far off from most other games in our genre if not leaning more on the generous side (i.e. Summoners War, MSL, Contest of Champions, Fire Emblem, etc). It's pretty easy to find some comparable rates with a google search.

In the end though, I understand that RNG can "feel" unfair at times, just as it can feel incredibly rewarding when you finally get what you want. It's part of the push and pull of the system, which makes it so widely popularized. That being said, we feel some form of roll protection is still good so that no matter how much you invest, overtime it will pay off and that's currently the direction we are heading in. This is also why we try and ensure there are enough freely earnable natural 4 and 5 star monsters within the ecosystem. With something like the Trooper Soul, we are literally giving away one of the most popular Eddies along with other very powerful natural 5 star characters for free to players who work towards pursing it.

There do need to be some barriers to entry though to preserve game balance, establish longer-term goals, and promote roster diversity. But in the end, with continual engagement in events and maximizing your resources between the various game modes, you should be able to gradually work towards obtaining many, if not all, characters in the game.

-Kaz

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Originally Posted by Chaosego888

...a huge percentage of Maiden fans discovered this band by the song 'The Trooper'....There is a certain lore attached to Trooper Eddie and your entire player base feels that this character should be awarded for time served here and they are right.

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Yes. And that is exactly why he was chosen to be one of the Eddies you can earn in the game for free. Will it take some effort and time to earn him? Yes. He is a very valuable and powerful character and so while there is a guaranteed path to earning him, it is not guaranteed fresh out of the gate as soon as the feature launches.

-Kaz

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

Well, there is really only one explanation for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

In terms of how the system works, we set the odds for various star levels or rewards to drop and that's it. We do tune the drops in the dungeons as needed. But again, don't touch the souls outside of increasing the odds of specific characters in event souls. There's no magic or anything else going on. If you could simulate hundreds of pulls you'd get pretty clear results in terms of the average number of natural 3*characters, vs 4*, vs 5* per 100 summons.

-Kaz

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Not buying your explanation :) I would agree for ''random'' thing while getting EXACTLY random stuff of each pool of souls while repeated... That way could get some of the chars the same, other different, totally different, or all the same (with very small probability - but still), however you don't wanted it to happen - once pulled and repated 1000 times (due to disconnecting off your servers) - the result will be exactly the same - so where's random number generation gone? That's a kind of magic... Sure... I know - you've applied some algorithms for the ''good sake'' of players - to prevent cheating :)... Yet it seems that you're the ones who ''cheat''... with random things, which seem to NOT as random as they should be... As you guys have the HELL options to ''tweak'' the outcoming ''trials'' anyway you want...

I see that you not going to share how ''generous'' the odds may be? That's a pitty, really :) And this only confirms what I have written in my above post to you...

Cheers,

W

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Originally Posted by Witkacy

Good evening, Kaz :)
[One mans experience,based on 77 souls]

Cheers,

W

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First of all: How the hell did we get that far?...back to a year ago i was almost the only person bitching while the others were defending this game (remember FlyingV? LOL). And now everyone is bitching and im (kind of) defending.

Witku,
Let me tell you my story: Once in 2010 i went REEEEEEEALLY drunk to play roulette and i put all my money on 28 Black...AND I've WON!
I bet you that this will never repeat itself!no matter how many times will i try! Should i blame the casinos for...WHAT? bending the table?

I used to spend every 675 ironite for the first 6 months of my playing on 10 rare soul packs and never owned a:AG,CG,HH,DD,and all those fancy A/G eddies....
Back then this was the only way to earn rare souls...and i've opened LOTS!

The devs have introduced many new ways of earning more souls through LOL,SQ and the Sacrifice (can get lots for nothing if you play it smartly). Hence you get more shots to get new toons...
Now the only 4-5* toons i'm missing are the warrior and gunner hentais and...of course...The Prisoner (i fell in love with this guy in the campaign story,even before i knew he's a playable character...still don't have him).
you know why? because i have opened quadrillions of souls!
i have seen blue eyes on 50 rare soul packs maaaaany times.40 G/A souls giving 3* dupes.and yesterday i opened 10 G/A souls and got a rainmaker(damn!so close i thought) and 2 souls later my last missing eddie-VHE. Last week i pulled 2 cyborgs from 15 G/A souls PLUS Astra!!!...

I don't think that the developers have ever really touched the % on the drops. But you have to realize that it's just a roll of a dice. Even seeing patterns in dupes dropping more at a certain time of the day or following each other...it's just the nature of how a human brain functions (fe: Deja vu or seeing monsters in the clouds)

I remember playing Battletech with friends and in the most crucial phase of the battle...i take a shot at the oponent...and... "SNAKE EYES-your robot tripped over a tree and stabbed him self in the processor! GG"

Did i blame my friend for cursing my dices? NO! Same here in LOTB- i don't think that the devs are evil and keep adjusting the rates just to piss Witek off...

Same goes for the hype around trooper eddie...C'mon guys! we all know that we will be here for another year,so what's the rush?
besides...if the TS toons compare to ES i would prefer to pull Wrath before Eternity Eddie... Let's wait and see what the other toons will be. and IF trooper eddie proves to be the Wrath ill join the rant for not getting him from the first "one time only soul"! but i'm certainly not quitting because of this...at least not untill i get THE ONE!...

Cheers,
M

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Originally Posted by Dank Brew

As usual I get ignored again. I'll take that as a yes

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...Maybe you should consider...taking at least a break?...it's getting over your head a bit too much, mate...honestly

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

Well, there is really only one explanation for it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

In terms of how the system works, we set the odds for various star levels or rewards to drop and that's it. We do tune the drops in the dungeons as needed. But again, don't touch the souls outside of increasing the odds of specific characters in event souls. There's no magic or anything else going on. If you could simulate hundreds of pulls you'd get pretty clear results in terms of the average number of natural 3*characters, vs 4*, vs 5* per 100 summons.

-Kaz

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Kaz is right, it's just how RNG works.

Think of it this way, when you flip a coin the odds are 50% you're going to get the side you want. But flipping twice won't guarantee it. You could get lucky and hit your side first flip, or get extremely unlucky and flip 5+ times never seeing it. Doesn't mean the odds have changed in either case, you're just making determinations based on tiny sample sizes.

Like he says, in order to see true odds you need a giant sample, hundreds, if not tens of thousands of pulls.

I used to play digital trading card apps with odds that were actually stated and had to explain this to people so many times. Cards would be listed as 10%, people would open 10, not get it and claim the odds were rigged. It's just not how math works when randomness is involved. Can get lucky and hit the card first try, or get unlucky not seeing it after 50 attempts. Small sample sizes will show huge deviations based on luck.

I'd put getting a 4* bot in forged to fight (highest rank over there) around 1-2% in the basic crystals in that game (similar to rare souls here). So yeah, sometimes you'll get lucky and hit a 4* with minimal crystals, but you can also get unlucky, open 100+ and never see one. Doesn't mean the odds are changing, you're just looking at a tiny slice of the pie. Same goes here.

It's just like gambling on slot machines, etc in a casino. There's odds, but randomness also plays a major role.

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

Yes. And that is exactly why he was chosen to be one of the Eddies you can earn in the game for free. Will it take some effort and time to earn him? Yes. He is a very valuable and powerful character and so while there is a guaranteed path to earning him, it is not guaranteed fresh out of the gate as soon as the feature launches.

-Kaz

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It's not that big a deal to me, just trying to get you to understand where everyone is coming from. I am more concerned with getting more character slots. I think we have 178 now counting the Idols & Hearts. Is there anyway we can get 10 seperate slots to keep the characters we are saving to sacrifice?

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Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB

Yes. And that is exactly why he was chosen to be one of the Eddies you can earn in the game for free. Will it take some effort and time to earn him? Yes. He is a very valuable and powerful character and so while there is a guaranteed path to earning him, it is not guaranteed fresh out of the gate as soon as the feature launches.

-Kaz

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i still believe that this would be the perfect occasion to finally give us some customer/supplier satisfaction. What is there to loose if you guarantee a path to it... why not change your mind for once and make him a guarantee in the one Time Soul...

We have already spent the time and efforts to get him... all those hours 50 Troopers everyday... what more can you expect???

Would this hurt your company? Probably not as much as it would please your customers...

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Originally Posted by Mizrael

First of all: How the hell did we get that far?...back to a year ago i was almost the only person bitching while the others were defending this game (remember FlyingV? LOL). And now everyone is bitching and im (kind of) defending.

Witku,
Let me tell you my story: Once in 2010 i went REEEEEEEALLY drunk to play roulette and i put all my money on 28 Black...AND I've WON!
I bet you that this will never repeat itself!no matter how many times will i try! Should i blame the casinos for...WHAT? bending the table?

I used to spend every 675 ironite for the first 6 months of my playing on 10 rare soul packs and never owned a:AG,CG,HH,DD,and all those fancy A/G eddies....
Back then this was the only way to earn rare souls...and i've opened LOTS!

The devs have introduced many new ways of earning more souls through LOL,SQ and the Sacrifice (can get lots for nothing if you play it smartly). Hence you get more shots to get new toons...
Now the only 4-5* toons i'm missing are the warrior and gunner hentais and...of course...The Prisoner (i fell in love with this guy in the campaign story,even before i knew he's a playable character...still don't have him).
you know why? because i have opened quadrillions of souls!
i have seen blue eyes on 50 rare soul packs maaaaany times.40 G/A souls giving 3* dupes.and yesterday i opened 10 G/A souls and got a rainmaker(damn!so close i thought) and 2 souls later my last missing eddie-VHE. Last week i pulled 2 cyborgs from 15 G/A souls PLUS Astra!!!...

I don't think that the developers have ever really touched the % on the drops. But you have to realize that it's just a roll of a dice. Even seeing patterns in dupes dropping more at a certain time of the day or following each other...it's just the nature of how a human brain functions (fe: Deja vu or seeing monsters in the clouds)

I remember playing Battletech with friends and in the most crucial phase of the battle...i take a shot at the oponent...and... "SNAKE EYES-your robot tripped over a tree and stabbed him self in the processor! GG"

Did i blame my friend for cursing my dices? NO! Same here in LOTB- i don't think that the devs are evil and keep adjusting the rates just to piss Witek off...

Same goes for the hype around trooper eddie...C'mon guys! we all know that we will be here for another year,so what's the rush?
besides...if the TS toons compare to ES i would prefer to pull Wrath before Eternity Eddie... Let's wait and see what the other toons will be. and IF trooper eddie proves to be the Wrath ill join the rant for not getting him from the first "one time only soul"! but i'm certainly not quitting because of this...at least not untill i get THE ONE!...

Cheers,
M

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Marku :)

First off... That what I've written were just EXAMPLES, first off head... So there's not true about my experience with 77 souls... That's cool you've opened them in amount of quadrillions... I honestly DON'T know how many opened them so far - A LOT - seems, fair?
As for gambling - I am NOT a gambler, and NEVER do anything I am not SURE I can win - one and only exception - can be shoot for sports (and for the prizes given to friends:)) at the shooting gallery... But that's it... There's NO gambling in this - just skills...

What can I say? I am TRULLY happy of your pulls, man! I think you deserved to have all these great chars... I haven't been as lucky as you - still don't have ANY assassin Eddie (besides 2x getting Storm, which ended up in the hole)... This only shows that ones being more lucky than others, despite playing the similar period of time... I am NOT surprised that you no complaing NOW - since you get almost all what you've wanted anyway... I am NOT complaing either, despite all this you've read in my post... I've just reffered to Kaz's post about droprates and shared SOME of my experience in that subject... Asked for some comments... That's it... And the fact I do NOT agree with some opinions being posted - well - I have such right, Am I?

So you don't have to ''defend'' anymore... As for Trooper Eddie... May be cool, no doubt - no interested of getting him (or anything else) right now - just enjoy my time :)

Miłego wieczoru ;)

Pozdro,

W

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Originally Posted by Chaosego888

I am more concerned with getting more character slots. I think we have 178 now counting the Idols & Hearts. Is there anyway we can get 10 seperate slots to keep the characters we are saving to sacrifice?

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I'll look at what we can do in the short term, but right now we're approaching the technical limits for what the game was originally designed for. We have a task we're investigating the the update after the next to solve this problem long-term so players can either have a larger total inventory, or can "save" certain characters for collection purposes in a way which will not bloat server save speed, load times, etc.

I know this is the unpopular opinion on Trooper Eddie, but I don't really see it being that much of a problem. I'm guessing we'll be able to buy fragments weekly just like the arena store. For the record, I don't care what you guys do with it.

The people who are raising concerns are respectable players and forum members though, so I think taking their opinions into consideration is worthwhile.

First of all, thank you Kaz and Sparton for trying to slow down the runaway train. Obviously, we're all very passionate about the game and Maiden lore. I chased CG for a year, Prisoner took almost that long to get and just summoned Nomad last week. The RNG is a pain but I myself must not mind the chase because I am still here. Guess I've accepted that it's a gamble. While the odds are never in our favor nor as generous as some say they were initially, I agree that we see more ways now to aquire the opportunity to take our chances.

Secondly, Jofers explanation of the RNG system makes complete sense and none of us have pulled enough of all souls to get an accurate figure on drop rates. The sample sizes are too small even in the 1000+ range, a number which I would find hard to believe many of us have surpassed more than once in a years time in the Legendary, GA or Rare classes.

Lastly, as upsetting as it was to pull one Eternal dupe, I was lucky enough to go 4/5 with Eternals. For those who know that frustration to greater extent, this dupe prevention feature will be a much appreciated addition to the game and I genuinely hope that it brings players like J back into the fold. Although bugs had a part and are a reason a bunch people have left, I believe 3 dupe Beelzebub pulls were the short straws that broke the camel in half in his case, respectively.

That said and after reading Slaukis ideas of how it could work, can you give us more details on how that feature will work and also, have you guys given any thought of adding on to the fragment system, a way we would be able to select a char with fragment claims after we've collected a greater amount of fragments? For example, at the moment, a soul can be claimed with say 100 fragments, but an added feature that could give us the option to select a character with x2 or x3 the amount of fragments would be great.

It would be a bit more of "chasing" than RNG, but randomness would still play a role and for those of us who have chased chars for the better part of a year, a welcome alternative to RNG in the BoS. So I guess, since this is an open forum and for the most part, one of the more contsructive threads we've had, it is more so your thoughts on expanding our options within the game, in that collecting aspect, that I'm asking about.

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Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB

I'll look at what we can do in the short term, but right now we're approaching the technical limits for what the game was originally designed for. We have a task we're investigating the the update after the next to solve this problem long-term so players can either have a larger total inventory, or can "save" certain characters for collection purposes in a way which will not bloat server save speed, load times, etc.

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OK. Cool and thanks for the Duplicate prevention idea also.

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Originally Posted by mjmxiii

That said and after reading Slaukis ideas of how it could work, can you give us more details on how that feature will work and also, have you guys given any thought of adding on to the fragment system, a way we would be able to select a char with fragment claims after we've collected a greater amount of fragments? For example, at the moment, a soul can be claimed with say 100 fragments, but an added feature that could give us the option to select a character with x2 or x3 the amount of fragments would be great.

It would be a bit more of "chasing" than RNG, but randomness would still play a role and for those of us who have chased chars for the better part of a year, a welcome alternative to RNG in the BoS. So I guess, since this is an open forum and for the most part, one of the more contsructive threads we've had, it is more so your thoughts on expanding our options within the game, in that collecting aspect, that I'm asking about.

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I love this idea so much, I would gladly save my fragments if I knew I was working to few toons I was still missing. The other thing I would like to see as a super special event but a 5 star toon fragment event like we had the immortal eddie event. Since we did one for the 5 star eddie I think it be good to one for all 5 star toons as well. Heck make it a Brave New world event too (i know people will hate me for that comment). But I think it be worth it for some end game players to try and get any high level toons that might still be missing.

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Originally Posted by mjmxiii

Secondly, Jofers explanation of the RNG system makes complete sense and none of us have pulled enough of all souls to get an accurate figure on drop rates. The sample sizes are too small even in the 1000+ range, a number which I would find hard to believe many of us have surpassed more than once in a years time in the Legendary, GA or Rare classes.

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I do transaction lookups on myself, Kaz, and some other top players from time to time (either when subjects like this come up or as random sampling/targeted investigation for exploits), and you'd be surprised. Obviously some spenders will have way more Rare Soul openings, but a lot of low-spend to free players have racked up an impressive amount of summons, especially those who saved up since before Sacrifice was released. You're right that not many have passed 1000 3 to 5 star soul openings, but many have (although not sure how many have gotten past 2000). Much like the fragment drop rate threads, you guys usually get within spitting distance of the real odds (although sometimes you get unlucky... poor druid138 definitely is getting a bit below average Golden Son Fragments in the current event).

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Originally Posted by mjmxiii

That said and after reading Slaukis ideas of how it could work, can you give us more details on how that feature will work and also, have you guys given any thought of adding on to the fragment system, a way we would be able to select a char with fragment claims after we've collected a greater amount of fragments? For example, at the moment, a soul can be claimed with say 100 fragments, but an added feature that could give us the option to select a character with x2 or x3 the amount of fragments would be great.

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I can't give you any solid details right now, because we're still working out that plan, and projecting what it means not just for Eternity Souls and the eventual Trooper Souls, but for other high-value, feature-associated special souls. In general, though, I don't think we want players to avoid getting something like the Eternity Soul so they can instead save up for a 3x cost Eternity Eddie Soul right away; we want players to still get those Eternity Souls, but also build up a guarantee as they open more of them.

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Originally Posted by Jofer16

Kaz is right, it's just how RNG works.

Think of it this way, when you flip a coin the odds are 50% you're going to get the side you want. But flipping twice won't guarantee it. You could get lucky and hit your side first flip, or get extremely unlucky and flip 5+ times never seeing it. Doesn't mean the odds have changed in either case, you're just making determinations based on tiny sample sizes.

Like he says, in order to see true odds you need a giant sample, hundreds, if not tens of thousands of pulls.

I used to play digital trading card apps with odds that were actually stated and had to explain this to people so many times. Cards would be listed as 10%, people would open 10, not get it and claim the odds were rigged. It's just not how math works when randomness is involved. Can get lucky and hit the card first try, or get unlucky not seeing it after 50 attempts. Small sample sizes will show huge deviations based on luck.

I'd put getting a 4* bot in forged to fight (highest rank over there) around 1-2% in the basic crystals in that game (similar to rare souls here). So yeah, sometimes you'll get lucky and hit a 4* with minimal crystals, but you can also get unlucky, open 100+ and never see one. Doesn't mean the odds are changing, you're just looking at a tiny slice of the pie. Same goes here.

It's just like gambling on slot machines, etc in a casino. There's odds, but randomness also plays a major role.

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Unfortunately, as much as it hurts me and i still bitch about it sometimes, this is exactly how RNG works.
A few may get lucky and pull everything from simple rare souls and others pull 100 pharaoh dogs from Legendary Souls, fuckin pharaoh dog..
I still hope that i will get decent toons in the future as long as G doesn't pick Prisoner :p

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Originally Posted by JJJ428

Heck make it a Brave New world event too (i know people will hate me for that comment).

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I hate you :p

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Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB

I do transaction lookups on myself, Kaz, and some other top players from time to time (either when subjects like this come up or as random sampling/targeted investigation for exploits), and you'd be surprised. Obviously some spenders will have way more Rare Soul openings, but a lot of low-spend to free players have racked up an impressive amount of summons, especially those who saved up since before Sacrifice was released. You're right that not many have passed 1000 3 to 5 star soul openings, but many have (although not sure how many have gotten past 2000). Much like the fragment drop rate threads, you guys usually get within spitting distance of the real odds (although sometimes you get unlucky... poor druid138 definitely is getting a bit below average Golden Son Fragments in the current event).

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Wow dude, that is an impressive amount of souls opened in the past year, when you really think about it.. Would be cool to see how many souls in respective types we've opened on average over this last year. I tend to feel bad for a lot of these guys too as RNG has been kind to me in recent months and I now pretty much have all the chars I really wanted.

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Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB

I can't give you any solid details right now, because we're still working out that plan, and projecting what it means not just for Eternity Souls and the eventual Trooper Souls, but for other high-value, feature-associated special souls. In general, though, I don't think we want players to avoid getting something like the Eternity Soul so they can instead save up for a 3x cost Eternity Eddie Soul right away; we want players to still get those Eternity Souls, but also build up a guarantee as they open more of them.

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Hey on this one, it would make sense not to include the Eternals and Troopers as selectable fragment claims, because there is such a limited pool of chars to pull from and since this dupe prevent thing is something thats getting implemented on those 2 groups of chars anyway, Trooper Ed should show up before a dupe does and I'm ok with that, even though many aren't. I was speaking more about Legendary and the souls below them, but its just an idea I've had for a while... had to share. Just thinking of ways to bring some of these guys back to the game.

I think, we all should to stop buying anything from the store (I stopped doing that months ago). Maybe no income from the players will pull some strings and devs will finally start to make something what this awesome community want.
NF don't forget that most of us (incl. myself) are here only because we're truly IM fans and your game slowly is going away and away from the true legacy of our famous band. If I was you, I would expect that soon (maybe after new patch) plenty of players will leave and I would finally start to listen to community - sooner than later to prevent that, make us happy, give us what we want.

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Originally Posted by Kris-0707

I think, we all should to stop buying anything from the store (I stopped doing that months ago). Maybe no income from the players will pull some strings and devs will finally start to make something what this awesome community want.
NF don't forget that most of us (incl. myself) are here only because we're truly IM fans and your game slowly is going away and away from the true legacy of our famous band. If I was you, I would expect that soon (maybe after new patch) plenty of players will leave and I would finally start to listen to community - sooner than later to prevent that, make us happy, give us what we want.

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I'm in... sadly but if this is what it takes...

Since it's been ignored, I take that as there is no hope on reconsidering trooper badge store limits? At least on skill shards. 3 instead of 2 even? Come on devs?

Looks like it.
Is no point to ask devs for anything, I just bought 30 skill shards + 9 g/a souls (got Tailgunner and 8x3 stars crap). 60k badges left for new Eddie.

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Originally Posted by Kris-0707

Looks like it.
Is no point to ask devs for anything, I just bought 30 skill shards + 9 g/a souls (got Tailgunner and 8x3 stars crap). 60k badges left for new Eddie.

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For a chance at new eddie.....

Do you guys really want to boycott the store? I will look into creating some type of poll to see if that helps the devs realize that limiting this games resources is a bad idea. But everyone needs to voice their opinion with it and then if NF go ahead with it, then I say hell yeah, lets boycott that shit. We are their bosses. We dictate the flow. If we stick together on shit like this, they have no choice but to listen to us. We are not at their mercy, they are at ours. Believe that shit!