This is actually a brilliant idea and is supported by good a argumentQuote:
Originally Posted by Ringe666-7406
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This is actually a brilliant idea and is supported by good a argumentQuote:
Originally Posted by Ringe666-7406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringe666-7406
Generally speaking, draws aren't a fun result to a battle (usually means a battle has dragged on, and either it's in a state where neither side could win or the attacker doesn't want to risk trying to slowly bring down the remaining defender(s). As such, I don't know if I want to encourage people to build defenses that reward you for encouraging an attacker to draw. You are right, though, that the main thing is building a defense to not lose, which normally means win, but even a draw is an improvement from a loss. But still, people don't need more encouragement to run characters like Gunner Corrupt Rescuer...Quote:
Originally Posted by Enti
I dunno, I'll think about it and pass it along to the team.
'Balance' them then. I'm seeing teams with two GCRs now, they are beatable but it's a bit of a slog. Perhaps the Titan shield is overkill, or perhaps the power skill needs higher cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringe666-7406
yep fully support the idea, really genius. i don't think anyone will change his defense based on that, because we all try to put in our best defenses out there. actually i would be pretty happy today ifQuote:
Originally Posted by Enti
my defense would get a draw instead a loss, so we are almost equally motivated to setup a defense that can get a draw now...
draws are really rare nowadays, so i don't think this would be that much of an issue tbh.
and this is definetly true...most ridiculous toon ever if you ask me. but since many chars are extremly powerfull now, she is not that outstanding as she was weeks ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
Easiest solution I see is to make her titan shield last for 2-3 rounds at the beginning of battle, rather than popping up again at the start of every round. She's ridiculously tanky in her current state.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
I don't think so. This char was extreme powerfull some time ago but thats no the case right now. I have no problems facing him and even the team with two GCR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritium
We just need to be creative and use chars that sometimes we forget about. This new patch is a good exemple, a cool buff to Assassins, that will make this problem that you guys are talking about a lot easier.
If the game is supposed to be easy wheres the fun? The fun for me lies in facing teams like this one with two GCR and force me to think twice in wich chars I will bring to battle not in a easy brain dead attack strategy of a mono team (becouse all of the defense teams are equally easy to defeat).
Tweaking one toon isn't going to ruin the fun of the game. Compare GCR to every other toon in terms of damage capability, survivability, and overall usefulness and I guarantee she will come out ahead of nearly every other toon out there. She just has too many cool tricks for one toon to have. Titan shield every turn, ability to revive a toon for a miniscule cost, grants endure to the entire team for 2 turns, and has a decent AOE attack. Sorry to say, but that doesn't seem balanced to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by HomemLivre
She'll still be incredibly powerful if she lost one of her current gimmicks or was changed to require a higher power cost for her arguably the most useful power skill in the game. People don't usually choose to use two of the same toons in one team, but when they do, odds are that the toon in question is either borderline OP, or just flat out OP. If somebody was lucky enough to pull 3 GCRs, I imagine a team of all of them and a GRE would be incredibly difficult to take down.
What other toon is good enough to consider using a team of 3 clones? The SSD or the current version of the sentinel Harpy are the only ones I can think of right now. Even a team of 3 Nomads, the hardest hitters in the game, wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem.
Well, theres some strategies to destroy a team even with 3 GCR, use the forgotten AoP with heavy hitters (like an AGS), It's so simple that it makes me feel stupid to say it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritium
Some points that I noticed facing him in the arena:
- Damage is a joke, fully sharded hitting 1900 to 2500?
- Easy counter
- Cost of power skill seems fine since devs changed ress health - She ress only one random toon so looks fine for me 6 energy when a Pharaoh have the same cost, heals a good amount all the team and ress all the team.
Anyways, after that I said imo she looks fine as she is.
just a small note, you can silence or block she with Harpy, Prisioner, DM, hell, even the purple sister Assassin CR (not worth until next patch, though).Quote:
Originally Posted by HomemLivre
Not to mention Newborns and the blue sister.
Hmmmm, maybe I will retry the Powerpuff Girls Team (with all three CR)
Hahahaha, that will be fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapathusara
Oh, yes... you'll need a "Johnny Bravo" Eddie, then! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Zapathusara
More seriously now, GCR is a powerfull toon, but she can be taken down easily... sometimes, because she becames a real menace when paired with the right companions, and as soon as I get close to the higher ranks, I see a lot of defenses which have her amongst other best PvP toons. Those defenses are pretty hard to beat.
Bingo. Plus GCR is easily beatable with any of the plethora of characters that remove buffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by HomemLivre
She alone is not really a problem. Pyro's burns paired with void shield is medicine for her. I didn't want to point out any char for nerfing (as someone said she is now lot less tougher). But draws can also happen with two nomads, two CDs or even two SSDs, atacking each other to eternity.
Well, it would benefit a friend of mine playing on a 1GB Tablet at 720p because the game run's horribly low on his machine. IMO it's not playable, but he's stubborn on still playing and refusing to buy a new device. For him, it would be "funny" to play at 0x speed, cause he would finally get perfect hits on purpose, not by accident/random/luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by zdm-1083
I admit that currently, when switching from pve autoplay 2x to pvp, i sometimes forget, that 2x speed is still on and yet manage to get perfect hits on first attacks.
just because you can deal with a char this doesn't mean he is okay...we can imagine a 500k damage dealer who can be countered by a block character and a reviver...so he is perfectly fine and reasonalby strong because we can deal with him/her?
i have to disagree on this one....
I am not saying she is good as she is, far from that, I also consider her a bit OP. But my point is totally missed here :DQuote:
Originally Posted by slauki
For me, GCR is a powerful toon but manageable, what bugs me is the fact that is powermove is not working as intend: there _no_ loss on life when reviving an ally!
@Sparton: sounds logic :]
Yes, she is buggy, when reviving an Eddie he doesn't get endure.
I already pointed some reasons that I don't think that shes OP, imo shes only the best support char you can have in your team in no need to bring a Pharaoh Eddie.
I can't even imagine a char that does 500k damage, this is totally out of the scenario of this game lol, and well, she hit in most 500k - 496k agains a assassin with low armor hahahah
Its a powerfull char that if you have her you must bring with you depending on your team, like many other chars, including all of her sisters will be after this patch.
Im just a little tired of all this chats about nerfs and blablabla, imho, we just need to focus and point where a buff is needed and do it so.
The game will always change and the meta to, if you don't adapt to it you will fail and there will be complains about every single char that are most used in the current meta. Everyone knows that I really like Visions, he will be nerfed hard and Im ok with it since the devs said why the nerf is needed. All the meta will be changed and maybe the Viking will start to shine, so there will be complains about the Viking and any other toon that shine with him to and thats why I will try to tune out of this kind of chats.
Cheers
Edit: Like zdm said theres some bugs related to titan shield and when the last week ended the first thing I did was to report devs about her shield (you can confirm with Kaz) and they said that all the shields have attention to bug fixes.
I think that the bug is sometimes visual and sometimes not. Just for science I tried to stole "no buffs" from a revived char from her and the result was a Endure stolen even not showing on that char.Quote:
Originally Posted by R1ck
That's my experience too Homemlivre. The endure doesn't always show when revived, but does show next round.
Need to be careful if you are thinking you can get a kill when really you can't.
In my tests my Eddie did not get endure and he was killed. But as mentioned, sometimes he gets endure sometimes he doesn't.
Hope that devs have the time to fix this and try to update it to in this next patch.
+1 hope so as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by HomemLivre
At this point I'd take what they have if it addresses the point system and not worry about fixes other than what's listed. They need to get this update out ASAP
All of these fixes are for naught if you're rewarded in PvP for sitting on your arse and penalized for playing...
Do you have any thoughts on what I argued in post #45? If you can refute my worries I'd gladly take it, but I really think this will become a pressing issue. As it is I'd interpret the lack of a comment in a way that you are not fully agreeing with the points I made ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
In regards to the Magus CR:
It should also be noted that, while most balancing concerns are aimed towards PvP nowadays, the character makes an absolute joke out of all PvE levels that don't have a Hellhound, Rocket Dog or Boss in them. Give him an accuracy buff and you can beat GoD Madness with a team otherwise full of level 1 toons.Quote:
Originally Posted by 90mphyorker
To close with a bug: Shaman Eddie's fury is not wokring properly and applies all 3 posibilities at the same times to enemies, sometimes mulitiple times. Played GoD with him and all 4 enemies in the last wave got 6 marks each with one or two of the debuffs on top. Magus CoD even got 9 marks...
Edit: almost forgot: sorry for the entrench falsity. Maybe I checked it in the German version, but I could have sworn it wasn't there. Could you never the less elaborate on the chances of one or two allies getting the buffs?
I don't know if is a known issue, but currently it' impossible to sell things (evo runes, shards and so on) if the amount of item to sell is more than 200.
The application displays an error and you can only exit.
Don't you worry, there's key fixes to the matchmaking and point systems in the next patch, in conjunction with some solid motivation to earn a lot of Iron Coins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
Those of you with massive war chests of Iron Coins will also have a special one-time offer to get, too.
I've been kinda mulling over how to respond, because while I think we can all agree that the Strike Talismans are really powerful (perhaps disproportionately so with less availability of the other Brave New World talismans it was designed alongside), you really pass over a lot of key things that solidly counter them, and I want the player base as a community to find out and solve these problems for themselves instead of us as developers giving you all the ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine
Ironically, a lot of the same things that counter the Gunner Corrupt Rescuer counter characters wielding Strike Talismans, so if the meta includes a lot of those things, then counters to those are even more important to have, and will help make short work of teams that use both... but even then, there are even more things that stop Strike users in their tracks on top of the counters it shares with handling a Rescuer's Titan Shield. You said yourself you feel it's better to go second to stop them, but I encourage you to look at the characters in the game and I think you'll find quite a few with basic skills that can help...
(Or be that guy with an Alliance General with Strike Talismans. I did not expect to have basically no power the entire fight, so even though I won, that really made me think, and I imagine that dude works just as well on offense as he was on defense.)
Yeeeeeah... the original campaign definitely wasn't designed with the kinds of stuff we ended up adding in mind. Thankfully, for most end game players the campaign is purely a matter of grinding, but it's something that'll be accounted for more in future features.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine
An unfortunate knock-on to fixing the issues with Immunity stopping the status effects from being applied that we didn't catch until after it went live, sadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine
Hm... we've seen quite a few reports of being unable to sell things, but no indication about problems based on quantity. I'll pass along that additional info to our QA to see if that helps them isolate the issue. Thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikmar
What would be considered a "massive war chest of iron coins"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
While your example is somewhat extreme haha, I do agree. I still believe GCR's power skill should be a bit more expensive, to the tune of costing 7 power. Nomad's skill is the same price, but isn't quite as useful ─ especially if not sharded up (GCR benefits from requiring no skill shards for hers). At this rate, I'm just glad GCR doesn't have a revive similar to Pharaoh Eddie's (full party revive), as I figure people would still find a way to defend her not being changed if that were the case. At least in Pharaoh's case, the only thing he has going for him is that team revive. And even then, he doesn't have titan shields to protect him and doesn't grant endure to the whole team. I feel bad for newer players who have to go up against GCRs without nearly as many of the counters that only veteran players have been able to amass. I imagine she would be quite the hurdle for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
Thank you for the infos guys.
I do have a new question.. about the shield/passive ordering. As is now, what is casted first counts. Before I've got used to it I have been using (and lost to it quite some of the battles) combinations like troll/green bot + AoS. What happens is that AoS block passive prevails over shields and takes the full dmg. Lets say green harpy hits my low hp team where prior to it my green bot casted force shields on all and my AoS is still alive. Force shielding is ignored, 3 bars remain but AoS is dead for sucking up the dmg. Was surprised. Same happens with red troll passive shields (and I can't say if it goes for shell talis respectively since I haven't tested). So this ordering is easier to notice with force shields on.
Imo the logic would be that dmg is reduced/calculated per creature respectively to shields before it moves to AoS due to block.
Well I've learned the hard way not to pair those things for now.
So the question is will this order remain or it will be adressed sometime soon and the logic will prevail.
Hi Sparton, could you further elaborate on the new matchmaking system and incentives do use Iron Coins? (how much coins is needed to fill a massive war chest btw?) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
About point system, kind of in the fences here, I hate I have to cherry pick players above me and revenge holds to try and get people tilted (feels dirty). Not able to use SoW sucks too.
But I like seeing new names at the top. Current system makes us think lot more on our defenses too... Of course I'm biased to Saturday's madness... but yeah... hope with changes some of that stays. A lot of that actually! :)
But my real point is this, can we have BNW already?!?
What's up with changing talismans that no longer drop? How on earth people who did not gather them way back, or are new to the game gonna get them? Also, Shell and Immunity are no longer available, for instance people that have come back to the game can't access them too. (probably some newer players also)
Not to mention not everybody is PvP maniac, I'd even say most people just like collecting Eddies and enjoy playing PvE, so, new content, PLEASE?!
Sorry about the little rant! Really admire you guys talking, and listening, to us!
Cheers
gmac
I think it's great seeing new names at the top. But I don't think anyone there wants to feel like they got there because they played the style you described - and that's exactly what you have to do in the current environment. It's lose lose. Players lose because they're penalized to play and frustrated by the psychology of being pushed back any time they make progress if they don't pick there targets just right and watch their numbers. Developers lose because less Ironite is spent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmac
A win-win scenario is needed.
Defenses? I would argue they matter less. Only because I have not chatted with anyone who feels their Hold rates are worth a darn with a lot of the recent changes. Of course my sample is fairly small - but it includes some pretty smart posters here on the forums.
I think it also depends on your play style. When one would blow through lists, you'd get revenged more. You'd tend to Hold the less experienced players and the the more experienced players would Break your defense. Occasionally you'd Hold some of the bigger guns like you or Jofer - and that's always cool.
With the current style of cherry-picking names above you - combined with Strike Talismans everywhere - consensus amongst most I've talked to are the 30% Hold rates are a thing of the past. You'll be getting revenged by the more experienced players so they will break your defense more often. 15-25% is more realistic.
It's likely using a strategy like Hold (the player) described in another thread (cherry picking weaklings) gives a better defensive Hold rate. Those revenging you are more likely to be unsuccessful in their revenge because you targeted a weaker player to begin with.
But From my standpoint - cherry picking just a few names on each list - whether players above you or those too weak to have a good chance at a revenge - is a trend I can't wait to see disappear.
Reading through this thread, I gotta say that too many folks complain about chars being too strong! If its not AoF it's Prisoner, if not him it's GR, not him then it's GCR and if her, then why not Sentinel Harpy? That's the reason we can't have nice things lol... This cycle of complaints is a never ending NerF wheel. Keeps on spinning... I never thought PvP would cause so many NerF bats to start swinging. For that reason alone, PvP kills it. It's literally opened a Pandoras box for people to yack into and it's making me sick lol 🤢
New content!!
I agree with much of this. But as far as Sentinel Harpy - it's not a nerf - it's an adjustment. If you take an unsharded Harpy and do the math based on how much each skill shard increases damage, you'll see she was hitting for way harder than intended. The scaling was off.Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmxiii
Fair enough. Don't have one and have yet to lose to one in PvP. Just seems like too many of us have gotten use to cries for the Bat...thought she was another oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
Thanks again for all the answers Sparton. If you don't mind I have two more questions:
I've been testing some damage over time effects to find out about the skill effects, and I was wondering how they work in concert with accuracy buffs.
Take the Flame skill for instance (Warrior & Sentinel Pyro): The attack has an 65% chance (without Skill Shards) to inflict the Flame status, which has a 35% chance to Remove Beneficial Effects.
Would an accuracy increase here increase the probability of both the Flame status and buff removal happening, or just the Flame status? Does the same thing happen with Skill Shard application?
I was also testing Bleed, and there's a slight contradiction in the skill description: it say it deals magic damage but deals true damage. Or at least, it dealt true damage by my Rocket Dog.
Look through the thread again. Seems that the players debating for nerfs are actually in the minority now. AFAIK, it seems that only slauki and I feel that the GCR isn't a balanced toon. BTW, that's the only toon I feel isn't balanced in the current state of the game (Sentinel Harpy, as stated by even Sparton himself, is bugged currently and doing more damage than intended).Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmxiii
Don't confuse us players arguing for the changing of one toon to be in favor of nerfing overall ─ I far prefer buffs to nerfs, and am glad that this appears to be the current direction the game is heading in (one needs only look at the new update notes to see this). Also, I'm pretty certain that most people are okay with the GCR's current state because of the many counters that only just became available with the most recent update. There were a lot more people who were ambivalent towards that specific toon a couple months ago. Counters to something, however, do not make that thing intrinsically balanced ─ they merely provide new ways of dealing with it. Read slauki's example of this in the last page to understand what I mean.
Hey Nicko!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
This would probably hurt my style of play, but I think defenses should matter more actually (yeah, better AI needed)
Look what HomemLivre was able to accomplish... He was up there Saturday morning because of his defense and smart play during the week. Every new patch that guy just know what is going to work.
We all just copy each other defenses, this is what's wrong. His out of the box thinking and quick adaptation to the new rules were key to his results. And lot of hard work, you would not believe the amount of time and dedication he puts to figure out the best defense possible. It blows my mind. Glad it got rewarded. (Still he had to play a lot Saturday to get his results and probably with some ironite investment)
Attack theoretical weaker players and revenge holds is nothing new, I personally don't like it. Like to clear my list and move on. But had to adapt somehow, at least during the week.
And new players have arrived in this new system, perhaps they are encouraged now to try Eternal too... this is good to the game, I think. (Kamuz is an awesome player, just an example)
Hope devs can balance it a bit, yes... but this is a tough one.
Don't know... Devs? Anybody?
I've been thinking about the new players as well. At this point, I'd imagine they're highly disadvantaged compared to the veteran players. They don't have any shell or immunity talismans to rely on, they lack skill shards, and they lack iron coins to obtain the new talismans and other resources they need to compete. I foresee a problem here: they lack iron coins needed to be competitive, but they likely can't win many fights to even accumulate any large amount of iron coins. They'd probably be more inclined to quit rather than slog it through the tough times of being new to the game...That's not a good situation for the future of the game! :SQuote:
Originally Posted by Gmac