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Start listing them here:
- Multiple hits are procing talisman effects in each hit.
- Marksman passive on Desert Marauder is making talisman procs to proc 100% for every toon. Seens to happen only with Desert Marauder, Pyro Soldier seens normal.
- Passive Agression has no counter. If your team don't go first, you will be cc'ed and lose 100% time.
Thanks for making this thread.
At some point either this week or next week, me and Kaz would like to have more formal threads investigating specific characters to help improve the balance of PVP. These threads will go into specifics for what kinds of nerfs (if any) we should do to characters, or if there are alternative solutions we can do to help improve the balance of PVP without directly reducing the power or capabilities of characters.
We will have some of our own thoughts for solutions, but if you (or others) have ideas for what a fair adjustment would be to solve any of the problems listed, definitely post that so everyone can have a discussion about what would be fair to do that doesn't make a character useless/not able to do it's primary job in a meaningful capacity.
There is a problem with gunner corrupt rescuer, Eddies can't be revive by her (is it normal?), so when in a team there are two dead chars being one of them an Eddie, she tries to revive the Eddie and she can't so the turn to revive someone is lost.
Another thing to check is the rate paralize talismans stun, I notice freezzing talismans trigger more often. Maybe my perception is wrong.
I'm not a fan of nerfs AT ALL, but sometimes there's nothing else you can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
There are a lot of ideas in my mind, but busy at work and my 1st daughter will be born soon so I have a lot else to think too! (No, I won't bring my daughter to the slaughter :P)
One thing I want o see that is both a fix and a nerf is talisman procs only procing once in multiple-hit toons. Yeah, people will cry, I myself will cry, but for the health of PvP this must be done.
Also, the procs are kind strange. Freeze and Paralize talismans have the same proc chance, but freeze procs a lot while paralize almost never procs. I'd triple check all the proc rates of all talismans. And also check Marksman passive both in Desert Marauder and Pyro Soldier, it seens to be working different in both and seen to have some glitch with Desert Marauder.
What is giving me the creeps is how we can tune Prisoner in PvP w/o destroying him and not making another toon too strong. Prisoner alone is fine, but when you combo him with another high proc toon like Gunner Golden Son or with a heavy defense toon like Warrior Troll or with a Marksman Desert Marauder he's simply too powerfull. The only counter to that combo is to have a Prisoner yourself and pray the aoe heavy CC enemy not to get a perfect hit.
The first thing that came to my mind is that Passive Agression could be changed to negate a passive from a random enemy every round instead of all passives. Or maybe it steal a random passive for your entire team.
Somethings definitely not right with freeze/paralyze. I have freeze on my yellow golden son. Usually freezes 2-3 enemies minimum on perfect hits. I put paralyze on there and was lucky to get 1-2.
Your always gonna have some characters that are more desirable in pvp than others. You could make everyone fight with the same generic team, but that'd be stupid. For the maxed players who are running maxed out everything, it's gonna almost always come down to who goes first. That's the problem. You could change things about these characters but it'd have to be drastic to make much difference I think. Even if you follow Frost's suggestion about talisman procs, if you make a team with 3-4 freeze tali characters plus that perfect hit passive, it's gonna do the same thing. Nerf the prisoner and you still got the blue bat. I think there's gonna be strong teams no matter what. Making it hurt less (points lost) when you lose, might help. I think it's gonna always come down to who goes first when you've got a couple strong teams going against each other.
Nerfing multi hit chars to only proc once is bad idea, they are so common chars that easily everybody can have so everyone can do the same, and they usually dont have so much hp, so you want to make them useless? I see no problem here. Nerfing prisoner? Lots of people have it lately, i have one myself and i still lose many defenses, having him is not a win 100% everytime, i dont think he should be nerfed as well. There are many ways to counter teams, is not about crying like a child because you dont have those chars and want to nerf them. The people complainings is about who starts first usually wins, if you have a good team, it is almost a 100% win. And of course the bugs, paralisys talismans dont proc like freeze even with the same chance. Fix the desert marauder marksman to not proc the talismans 100% everytime, it seems ok in the assassin pyro soldier. And fix the thief talisman to not fill the fury bar with just one char perfect hit in the first round. Teams like Nicko's, that exploit all this things should not be permited, 2 tailgunners fury in 2 rounds? Are you kidding me? Even just one fury in the first round is enough to kill a team without a chance to do nothing, remember that tailgunners fury gives extra turn to the team if kills someone.
And if the devs still think that nerfing prisoner is a must, how about make him that he cant get affected by any status (stun, freeze, etc) and make his attack AOE.
If the Prisoner had to get nerfed then maybe a fair move would be to make his passive ability his power ability instead. Still gives him the powerful skill, but gives those who don't go first a fighting chance against an offensive onslaught.Quote:
Originally Posted by XcarecroW
I agree with some points, some teams and some toons are stronger than others, and end game players with everything maxed could go down to who strike first, but there's a difference between having a chance to win and having no chance to win. IMO having no chance to win is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFreeze
The defeat and revenge mechanic is also really broken, as is the matchmaking. I dunno why high rank guys like Nicko, Pizzafryday, etc. keep attacking me, because they are 4000+ points and I'm 1300~ points. They never pop in my attack list, I wonder why I keep popping in their list. Shouldn't they also have the cap of ~1000 difference points like I have?
Also the endless attack/revenge cicle hurts a lot. Be attacked by the same player 5x times a day... The system is very strange. I think it should be like troopers: you can attack someone only once a day, and revenge only once. The beta playerbase is small? Ok, but I'd take it to have fewer people to attack/revenge every day than right now that I go to sleep and drop 300 points because high rank guys attack me multiple times.
Points system is also broken as I said. If I attack Nicko and win I get 24 points, but if he attacks me he also gets 24 points. If I attack someone with almost the same points I get only 10. Shouldn't we get less points the lower the rank the guy we attack? Like if I attack someone with 500 points I get 2, if I attack someone with 2000 points I get 24.
Again nothing personal against Nicko it's just he's a very good example to test things.
How about changing the prisoner's passive to: "disable random enemies' passives". In my opinion this is the perfect solution to this issue. Prisoner's passive still works, but luck is introduced for both teams and there is no certain winner every time.
Even betterQuote:
Originally Posted by Hypnos
it's absolutly necessary IMO to nerf them so that only the first hit procs or not, where's the fun then the guys always freezes 2/4 or 3/4 of the team? that's absurd, and i feel that some chars are more broken than others. so the gunner golden son is more broken then the assassin or the possessed multihit rockets i feel. cannot prove this, but it seems so.Quote:
Originally Posted by XcarecroW
totally agree with this...Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost
To the prisoner:
the prisoner is okay, i wouldn't nerf him the only problem is that his passive cannot be counterd. so we need a way to counter him.
it would be enough to add the passive to some more characters, that would do the job. even a corrupt ox cultist would be great with this passive, so
maybe that would be a good option. the prisoner would stay as powerfull as he is but the other team would have have the chance to block passives as well.
OR: change the prisoner, so that he also removes passives of the own team.... that would be probably easy to do and would also be an option. if you want to use this guy, you also have no passives...
Or maybe Passive Agression: All enemy passives also applyes to your entire team. You will have your passives (chance of surviving/winning) but they will also apply to your enemy, making him harder to beat. That would be very interesting, the more passives you have the stronger Prisoner becomes w/o removing your chance of winning.
What is the point of a multi hit char then? Just make all chars one hit. Seriously, the golden sons are glass canons and the multi hit is one of their unique abilities. If you nerf that, you are damaging all burn and mark talismans too and make them useless. Come on, you almost all have been crying for all the nerfs and now you are asking for more? This is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
Except Nicko and Pizzafriday all other players are really paired in points. It is going to be a pay to win in the end, like it or not.
the point of using them, is their ultra hight damage. yeah they are glass cannons but did you see the thread where someone put 21+ burns on an enemy, that's ridiculously broken. you can burn down every enemy without a chance to counter. that's no nerf that's simply fixing a broken mechanic.Quote:
Originally Posted by XcarecroW
they can mutihit, that's perfectly okay, but they shouldn't abuse the talismans proc chance by doing that. that's the only point, and i bet this is not intended as well, it's simply a bug, like the multiple mark consume where you could do 108% damage to all enemies for 7 power....
Slauki i understand your point man, but they are not super rare chars to get, and everyone can have them. Sometimes you will start first and you can use them in your own advantage, and against them in pvp, we all know that the AI doesnt usually make a lot of perfect hits. And if you talk about balanced game, think about players that are not high level and they can use them to fight a higher level, if you nerf them, low level players will be more screwed.
They should try to fix first, the system points reward and the infinite revenge thing. Those things is what usually people is complaining for.
By the way, why are you talking about pizzafriday in a 3rd person way?Quote:
Originally Posted by XcarecroW
Nicko is enjoying this discussionQuote:
Originally Posted by Aristo4
Yeah, I think that multiple hitters needs a review...
When I use a Golden Son Assassin with a void shield that triggers almost 100% of the time, or a Gunner GS with Thief and Freezing talismans(same percent of triggering) I REALLY FEEL LIKE CHEATING....
The chars must not be nerfed, instead YOU MUST check the % of effect triggering, that what is wrong... Every hit must be taken as just one per enemy, for triggering % purposes, just like other AOE attacks.
On other way, I like The Prisoner passive as it is(yes, I own one), since is the only feature that makes him "Special"... But I also like fight teams with him, just go with high HP chars, and focuse my attacks on the bastard. Once he's dead, all the passives are back.
The problem is not with multi-hit per se, the problem is each hit procing talismans. The multi-hit is very cool and very powerfull, even w/o talismans it's a great mechanic. The problem is every hit procing talisman effects such as freeze.Quote:
Originally Posted by XcarecroW
In a one hit toon you have 12% chance of procing freeze per enemy unity. With a toon that hits 5 times it's 5 * 12%, it almost land 100% of times in all toons, wich might be a bug or a broken mechanic, only devs can say that.
Wil hurt burning teams? For sure. I built warrior golden son over burning talismans and can get at least 6 burning marks, paired with Desert Guardian or Pyro Soldier or Wickerman Eddie or Warrior Voidling is a ton of damage. But what hurts more is having no action AT ALL. I also feel sorry for my enemy when I use Horrow with GR Eddie and freeze entire team in first hit, it's a full win, but it's broken.
Also, I'm pretty sure the skill procs have something to do with talisman procs, might have a bug here too. CG is 100% chance to land magic debuff, might be why he freezes/stuns a lot more than any other toon.
Well, all in all, procs seen to be the broken mechanic here (alongside with Passive Aggression), so let's wait and see what Kaz and Sparton have to say about this mechanics, how they should work and what will be done about then.
Remember guys one thing that was too powerfull and changed before PvP came out: reflect shields. They were returning 50% of the damage done, now they are returning 25%. Immagine if they stayed the same...
You can go full Sentinel team with maxed health talismans agains Nicko, if he goes first you'll lose no matter what.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demoonchild
Only way to counter his defense is having a Prisoner yourself and pray you go 1st round or pray he doesn't land perfect hit on golden son. Again Nicko's an example, but this can be done with a lot of heavy CC teams.
@Sparton, @Kaz. Have you thought about lowering the damage for PvP purposes only? It is very discouraging that whoever goes first wins. The damage set up is too high. You shouldn't be able to murder 2-3 characters in one turn (Not even with class advantage). The team that goes second should be able to still win the match, by setting up shields/healing/debufs etc. I believe that PvP should be about strategy not about whoever goes first for the kill.
Don't think it's needed, since you have a lot of means to mitigate damage (immunity, invincibility, block, vanish, heal).Quote:
Originally Posted by zamasu
Let's be real, the team that goes second loses because they are almost ever under hard CC (freeze/stun) and can't do anything. You can plan your team as clever as you can like Nicko, you go second you'll have at least 3 toons frozen or stunned or taunted. Yes, Nicko's pretty dead if he doesn't go first.
This means that hard CC is broken? Depends, I don't think so yet. Some toons procing hard CC 100% to all toons? Yes, that's broken as hell.
Maybe if they made all characters equal everyone would be happy. If devs keep nerfing characters that will be the end result! Biggest problem with arena is who goes 1st! 2 out of 3 would make more sense. With the 3rd match,if necessary decided by fewest turns, most damage dealt,least damage taken etc.
Also haven't spent a dime on this game except $6.99 on 700 ironite sale to buy rare soul megapack. Not even real money, Google Opinion Reward Program. That's what I spend all ironite on, collecting characters. Have not & will not use refresh in arena.
Usually rank between 10th & 20th & 3 of 4 members of my team do not have maxed talismans so....
Sry,should've posted in pvp feedback
This is not necessarily true. for example, you can have a [insert gunner character] with 6 health talismans (if possible) but once he gets hit by an assassin toon [golden son for example] he will be dead no matter what. A character should not be able to kill a fully maxed character in one hit or a team should not be downsized to a one character after the first turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost
and it is true you have means to mitigate damage but most of them require for you to cast them, and how are you going to be able to cast them if your characters are dead? It would make more sense to lower the damage until a point where a team cannot be destroyed in the first round and then the team that goes second can at least use their abilities and still have a possibility to win the battle.
I am not saying that the team that goes first should not have the advantage, but this advantage should not be the one that decides who wins 99% of the time.
And yes CC (idk what that stands for, but I know what you are referring to) needs to be revised and/or we need characters that are able to counter those abilities and that are not hard as hell to get as it is right now.
Nerfing is way different from fixing a broken mechanic. Multiple hits, high damage, CC, all fine. Talisman procing 100% times? Broken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentknight
That's where passives go. You have shield passives, heal/cleanse passives, immunity passives, block passives, etc. You don't need to cast to mitigate damage, just build your team differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by zamasu
Kill entire team in one hit? Well a fully maxed Assassin golden son against a fully maxed gunner team will be a one hit, yes, that's because of affinity and true damage. Try that with a sentinel team or some team with a Green Bat. One toon will always die no matter you do.
The problem is not damage, the problem is broken mechanics.
But how many characters do you have out there with those passives? I can count just a handful. and I agree that that's where the passives come to play but, like I said, we only have a handful of them and they are really hard to get at the moment. that's why we need more characters with such abilities. But with the way the game is built at the moment high damage is a huge problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost
Killing an entire team just because of class advantage shouldn't doesn't make sense. There should be and advantage but not as high as it is right now. Once again, killing a whole team in one turn doesn't make sense at all.
Maybe this is too far off topic, but what about introducing things like immunity, perfect hit and maybe even the prisoners passive on a talisman set. It wouldn't be an immediate fix, but it would open up options for countering some of these things down the road. Another really lame option to even things up would be to have both teams run on auto. Please don't do that though. It would really suck in my opinion.
If we reduce the damage one thing will change: Not the team with first hit wins (not sure if that's true anyway), the human control team would win 98% of the time. that would be bad for every defense, since the AI would use the wrong moves at the wrong time. The longer the match lasts the bigger is this disadvantage for AI. More damage and early decisions are better for the defending team.
BTW: maybe my defense is complete shit, but my team doesn't always win when they get first. i think many don't win automaticly, only the teams wich exploit
the broken mechanics to their favour have a big advantage. so maybe not so many changes are needed TBH, let's fix the broken things mentioned here and let's take a look what comes up next. that's how things get better....
I agree. And I think damage reduction is a really bad idea. Especially since there are some obvious mechanics that can be tweaked for balance before going to such drastic measures that will have everyone chasing the devs with torches and pitchforksQuote:
Originally Posted by slauki
This is probably going to be a pretty large thread, so I won't be responding to everything, but there is a few things I want to touch on that I won't end up covering in eventual character-specific discussions.
The most common complaint we've seen about matchmaking is seeing the same people over and over. The reason people at the top can see people way below them is if it was something like only seeing people within 1000 points of them, some of them would literally only see 1 other person, or in the case of ranks 3-10 of this writing only seeing 10-20 people (and if that's all you see and are consistently winning... you'll be pushing a lot of what you see below you, seeing even less people).Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost
It's annoying, but it's largely a product of this being in beta and there being a limited pool of our playerbase having access to PVP. Once we have the full player base at it this'll be a bit more constrained, but there's not much we can do about that with a limited player pool, sadly.
Basically the same answer as above; even though most people aren't attacking 100+ people a day, it'd start discouraging people from playing as they either only start matchmaking people way above them (punishing and asking for a loss) or matchmaking people way below them (basically bullying people who are weaker/not engaging as much).Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost
(There's still the subject of the game encouraging people to revenge more than we expected people would; that's still on our radar as something to better constrain/discourage.)
The points do scale based on how different your points are from your opponent already; if you can get 24 points against him, he's certainly getting less than the baseline 19 points from beating you. The reason the scaling isn't more aggressive is it would otherwise make it near impossible for people who more consistently win and climb higher to not immediately lose all that progress (since they have far fewer/no people with similar or better points than them). Obviously losing most of your progress from one day to the next is disheartening and also a problem we need to solve, but I don't think making it so top-ranked players cannot keep slowly climbing if they're investing in it will help people in the 1100-1800 VP range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost
This is basically the stance of the designers at Nodding Frog; multi-hit having multiple chances to proc talismans was never the intent. We will be fixing this in advance of PVP going live, because it's becoming increasingly clear that this one of the biggest factors that pushes the game too far into "go first and win" territory, which is inherently anti-competitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
It's something we're considering, but it's a fine balance to strike. If the damage reduction is too strong, durable Sentinels and damage shield status effects (Reflect Shields, Damage Reduction Shields, Magma Shields, etc) start to become way too powerful, making certain characters unkillable machines (there's one character in particular that we have concerns about, much to my chagrin). We want to look into options that could allow players to do this if they sacrifice other opportunities, but are not sure how long it would take to implement such ideas, which may instead come out around or after PVP goes worldwide.Quote:
Originally Posted by zamasu
For the most part, the most likely case we've anecdotally seen with people having teams 50-75% crushed in turn 1 usually boils down to one or both sides having glass cannon teams (which works well in PVE when you're just strong enough to do that to enemies, but is a lot less consistent in PVP) or is fighting at a rank well below where someone should naturally be. We're still gathering and analyzing data to see how widespread this is at various divisions and to help us guide VP point gains and losses to help naturally push people into ranges of points that best fit their power and skill levels.
Thanks for the replies, Sparton. This is my greatest frustration right now -the Sisyphus factor. In Greek mythology Sisyphus was punished by having to roll a large boulder up a hill every day only to watch it fall back down the hill. He had to repeat this eternally. This is the current iteration of PVP -even after I spent some ironite after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
I still love my suggestion to cut defensive trophy losses in 1/2. :)
About the golden son and freeze talismans. I've got one, and I use it in my defense. Maxed talismans and skills and all. My defense only wins when I get really lucky. Without the perfect hit passive it's not all that great. My defense percentage is pretty sad.
CC stands for CrowdControl, ie, Freeze/Stun/Taunt
@Prisioner: I believe making its Passive "steals" others passives leads to bugs. Made him disable a random passive, or better, disable all passives from all teams. This may leads to teams w different toons.
@MultHit: I agree its proc are messed up
Now, Sparton add a thing Im thinking recently. My team used to be a glass cannon army in first week. My GR had +3k magic w Ignore MR. Was a OHKO most of time. I notice that was overkill and started to add a sort of Health Talismans to all my main toons, wothout losing too many dmg output. And then I started to win even when I go second. I dont think I abbuse CC, despite having 5 full 50 sets of talismans in my rotating main attack. Ok, sometimes I buff Accuracy, but nothing like the broken mechanics. PvP demands more health. +2k attk/magic is enough most of time.
But I agree about the broken team ups / setups. Going second hurts a lot, but in a fair-normal match, u can turn over in attacks. In defenses, tanky sometimes work, but I basicly give up defenses teams for now.
(A bleed/permadeath 3 set-talisman would be nice)
Certainly a Talisman adjustment is in order, though I will be sad to see that day :p
I kid! (Sort of ;)) But I get it. It's fair.
As far as nerfs, the Prisoners passive, etc there is one more option everyone has to them - be smart about who you attack or revenge. A level 87 player attacked me five times in a row today. Lost every single time.
I think Killhouse wrote an excellent analysis of his rise to the top that first week, and an important part of that was knowing who to attack and who to avoid. He has no Prisoner. He had no Dessert Maurader. He was the top player
I'm not saying some minor adjustments aren't needed. I cried a bit about the Corrupt General nerf before I played PvP and now see its importance. But how far do we take this?
I'm going to cite an example of my own stupidity and that's GMACs defense. Two maxed Angels, a Corrupt General, and Grim Reaper
No Maurader. No Prisoner. But if he goes first? He usually wipes me out because the Angels and Grim Reaper have no issues doing 15k + of damage AND stunning
I'd love to have a Troll. It would really help me in this situation - but I don't. My bad decision to attack him without a Troll or shield - but I get tempted and cocky - and often slaughtered:D
If this was pure strategy, like chess, we'd all have the same characters. But this isn't chess. Some of us have put a lot of time - and some money - into building teams that include rare or more powerful characters. Neutralize that and the specialness is gone.
So certainly some minor rebalancing is in order. I think Slauki has had some great comments - fix the "broken" mechanics, but not over tinker with damage adjustments, nerfs, etc
I personally feel that the win/loss point system is the most critical isssue affecting every player in the game. Couldn't imagine if this were live and there were thousands of people out there gunning after high ranked players like me and Pizza Friday - we'd be in the negative by morning!
This. I win going second on a very consistent basis - including most Prisoner teams - by choosing which teams to attack, character selection, and then building those characters talismans accordingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapathusara
Aur0ra85 had been saying for a long time - before PvP - the poor drop rate of green runes was a killer because most toons ultimately could use at least one green talisman for health. Yes, you sacrifice some damage, but what good is damage if you're wiped out with two hits?
Great example of a strategy that is open to everyone - one that can make a huge difference - yet many overlook it
I can see where you are coming from. But I def think that it needs a small tweak, maybe take a look a class advantages, I have seen a full HP built AG been murdered with one warrior hit and I don't think that should be that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
Can I ask you one more question? how is determined who goes first? it seems like when I am in a win streak and continue winning, 99% of the time I go second.
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapathusara
And I agree that Prisoner's passive is way too overpowered and there's no way to counterattack him (unless you have another Prisoner). I think one possible solution would be to introduce new characters that can do something about it.
I like the idea of counter picking characters. PvP should be about strategy not about who goes first but the problem with counter picking is that there are not many characters where to pick from, with the current drop rates getting a rare character is almost impossible. I've been playing since the game came out and I still don't have Corrupt General, AG, prisoner, etc.. fu** I don't even have a Carriage Rider lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
And btw, stop attacking me lol
So I couldn't stand it anymore and I finally bit the bullet and "moved to Canada". I found out that 1/3 of my troops also live in Canada! Hey neighbors! ;)
So I've had about a day and a half playing with PvP and it is cool, and my experience is limited, but felt compelled to write.
There is a lot of whining going on. It seems like people are expecting to have a single 4 man team that wins all the time. That isn't how it works. Nicko nailed it above by saying it all comes down to toon selection, and strategy. I like you Nicko! I actually don't mind going second and, like Nicko, I pick my toons strategically against each opponent and their team, and have faired very well. I don't have the prisoner, and by himself, he's not a problem. I've beat a ton of prisoner teams going second. They don't scare me. It is when someone thinks through the pairing of the prisoner with other toons that can make that character difficult. Every character has a nemisis, except the prisoner...although I guess another prisoner is his nemisis? I'm willing to accept that if that is what the developers choose. I'm not scared of the Corrupt General, again every character has a nemesis/weakness to exploit. My defense loses regularly. I accept that, because I could easily beat me too. :)
I actually laugh after a tough back and forth battle that I lose. I failed to identify the foundational element of the defense. I just go back and win, order doesn't matter. But I really enjoy reading the defense to try and figure out the "weakness" that I will need to exploit to win. There are some creative MotherF**'s out there.
I've read whining about multi-hitters and trolls and other characters and I don't think it is valid. I demonstrated the 21 DoT affects in one round, but that was an extreme example of a legitimate play. One where the Warrior Golden son would be worse than a glass canon, a glass canon shattered put back together that would break if the wind blew on it. In other words, I could never replicate that performance in PvP and win. I can't replicate that in the Cosmos either, I don't think. If you tried it in PvP it is a losing strategy for sure. I hope the developers realize this and take the complaints for what they are. Bugs should be fixed, but changing mechanics and nerfing should not be done lightly.
Sparton, I'd love to be on the toon nerf advisory feedback team.
This game is like an ecosystem, and changing the mechanics (a la multi-hitter approach) is very dangerous, and the wrong solution IMHO. The multi-hitters have a weakness too and they have a place in the game as designed.
So here I sit with 40k trooper points and a decision. Do I buy 10 G/A souls or do I get 8 skill shards. Do I go for the prisoner or do I strengthen my team to fight him. It is my choice to make, we all have a choices.
My 2.5 cents Canadian.
Interesting comments, CanyptianFit, and I agree with you 100%, the nerf bat should definitely be used sparingly!
I also continue to agree--hard--with BillLion's suggestion to cut defense points lost in half, but that's another matter.
P.S.: Get the skill shards, man! :cool:
I don't think I've ever seen an Angel of Fear (the hardest-hitting Warrior I've ever encountered) do more than about 20k to a Sentinel (3 hits of ~6k each), and most top-end Allied General builds should have at least 30k HP. There might be weirdness when you're not talking about level 100's with all 5 star talismans or if buffs aren't being taken into account (which only affect Angel of Fear so much, due to how much of it's damage is based on Max HP and it being True Damage and therefore not affected with Physical/Magic Charge and Def/MR Down).Quote:
Originally Posted by zamasu
If you have any specific examples where that's not the case (am I missing something and typical Angel of Fears can output more before buffs, or is there an even better single-target damager that doesn't take a setup?), then that's definitely interesting to know. The Angel of Fear is one of the premiere single-target damagers, so I don't really want to nerf it for doing it's job well unless it does it's job too well.
It's a coin flip; 50/50 chance. We hope to add a visualization at the start of battle for this in a future update, too (you may have seen it incorrectly pop out mid battle).Quote:
Originally Posted by zamasu