June 2017 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[angelkelly]

I have to disagree about it making strategy less important, I think it makes strategy extremely important. It requires a more balanced offense since you don't know what you'll be facing. We already face that with defense, and that's really the only place real strategy needs to be used. Battles probably would take longer, but then overall points would probably be lower, so it would balance out.

Your words, "you cannot go in the dark and set up a team vs. unknown opponents." Yet, that's exactly what we have to do with our defense. Why not give that same advantage to defense? Then the strategy becomes more intelligence vs. AI.

Could make it to where it changes at a certain rank. Below 250 in rank (as in ranks 1-250) and you lose the advantage of seeing the defense before you attack.

The whole reason why some people like myself even participate in the arena is for the iron coins. Yet your idea defeats the whole purpose of doing just that.

[IceManFerrar]

Very good points, all of you. I would like to summarize some of the key points for Sparton/Kaz to take note:

- Immunity should prevent your buffs from being stolen/taken/nullified, including that from Wrath, NBoL, Visions, MCR, Wickerdog King, etc. Else the whiole point of Immunity is defeated, and is a PITA when facing Visions, SSD, and Harpy teams. They can be beaten, but it is stupid and painful

- If the Immunity suggestion above is implemented, then that will help the GCR against NBoL and MCR, in which case you would not have to nerf the two, and would also balance out the teams using GCR, since they would need overall team Immunity or Immunity Talismans on GCR. Right now some teams with GCR are extremely OP and unfair to the rest of us non-GCR mortals

- Nerfing NBoL and MCR is ridiculous if you do not nerf GCR...else she becomes extremely OP again. I can't understand why you would nerf NBoL and MCR without then nerfing GCR (maybe she should only cast Titan Shield every 2nd/alternate round, and maybe her power cost should be increased to 7); NBoL and MCR are pretty much the only two useful opponents to GCR (Angel of Pain, Death Dog are ok opponents, but not that useful in PvP)

I hope you guys take our suggestions into consideration. If these tuning updates are implemented and both of my counters against the GCR are neutered, then I may as well quit the game. For players such as myself without Immunity or many Shell Talismans (I only have two sets of Shells which I purchased during the NBoL event), and having invested skill Shards in maxing NBoL and MCR, the game then becomes unplayable...it will be between the haves and the have-nots!

[Witkacy]

Good afternoon all

Today's tale will be about how David (myself) defeated The Goliath and despite that I have won... I've lost due to ''lost connection with the server (APMA3)... I think the story is somewhat linked with planned ''adjustments'' as our Sparton used to call them (correct me if I am wrong, ok?)... Let's start from the begining though... Yesterday's night I dare to say I had the most tough and longsome battle in the arena so far I guess...

The opponents' team:

Mummy Eddie (armed with Shell talis, I believe)
Green SSD (Counterstrike & Invisiblity)
The Nomad (Counterstrike & Life talis)
GCR (usual stuff, I think)

Myself:

Viking Eddie (common available talis)
Green SSD (as above)
MCR (as above)
GCR (as above)

The fate wasn't favorable to me (as pretty much always, BTW)... They went first and the hell was unleashed as Mummy started...

I'm not a big fan of just putting 4 or more green talismans onto every character that can fit them...

Opposite to you, dear Sparton I AM... That's my only hope I could be able to fight in the arena a bit longer... and survive... Nevertheless MCR went down first taunted & countered by invisible SSD... Even if I had put 3 greens in her backpack... Sure you can say it was obvious suicide pulling her against 2 sentinels in the team... True, but did just on purpose just because she could be helpful to steal some goodies... Haven't got a chance, to even try at first... As you can see Sparton she's can be pretty easily out of the field... So why the nerf? Leave her be as she is, please...

Nedless to say that in a short while after I left with just GCR, who fought back against outnumbered enemies, refusing to die against all odds, as they've lost only Mummy in the fight... After 3 turns I could finally catch some breath - began to slowly ressurrect the fallen comrades as I had plenty of power points I haven't got the chance to use for some time, and make the battle lasts and lasts...

Eventually the fortune helped me a bit and at some point I was the one with Green SSD who kept distracted the hostile GCR of ressurrecting her friends... In the meantime I've received ingame warning that ''only 3 minutes left''... I had waited till the hostile GCR would be having partially broken shield, used fury of ressurrected Viking - thank you and goodnight, GCR... Hallelujah! But shortly after enormous long loading screen after victory animation I've received a note about APMA3... I know that bugs might be happen... Today checked this one out and it was stated as ''defeat''... Why if I may ask, please - if lost connection with YOUR server and the bug was on your side - why to punish me with defeat, despite that I've won? Why just don't let it be as the fight hasn't happen yet, if something like that will occur in the future?

Some conclusions of my story to consider, please:

1. No need to nerf NCR, really - she can be annoying, but sure not overpowered and easy to wipe out IMHO... (I speak for her, because I use her, yet it could be said about the other chars as well)...
2. As I already said this one somewhere else - I like challenges, but how about make the chances even a bit, please and make all those super power talis available to all, but not as fake ''promotions'' but as usual drop in SL (Talisman horde), even one once a week, instead of those freaking freezing sorcery I am receiving almost daily?
3. Fix the bugs that crashing the game, ie. causing people loosing even if they've won... Totally not cool and I DON'T WANT to loose that way...

Cheers,

W

[Askora]

The whole reason why some people like myself even participate in the arena is for the iron coins. Yet your idea defeats the whole purpose of doing just that.

My primary reason for playing PvP is for iron coins as well. I don't think it would defeat that purpose, it would just make it more challenging. Arena store prices might need to be adjusted if it affects too many people's ability to gain iron coins, but overall I wouldn't think that would change much. It would only make it more of a challenge to compete for top spots.

If someone wanted to strictly farm for iron coins, they could just have a token defense. That way they could stay below the top 250 and always see what they're facing. Those wanting higher ranks would have to work harder to earn it. Maybe the rewards could even be bumped up to make it more worthwhile.

So far, the only real argument against it that I see is it could make it harder to beat the defense. Wow! If that's what people are worried about, why not do away with defense entirely and it can be about who spends the most on Sow. The AI is generally predictable, so you still have that advantage, everyone would just have to use a more balanced team.

[IceManFerrar]

It would be a scary thought to face a defense team without knowing what they were, but would be fun nonetheless, especially for the top players.

Speaking of that, it would be good to have a coin toss for PVE as well, to decide who goes first...would make PvE less boring and would make us think twice which team we take to face them

[Askora]

It would be a scary thought to face a defense team without knowing what they were, but would be fun nonetheless, especially for the top players.

Speaking of that, it would be good to have a coin toss for PVE as well, to decide who goes first...would make PvE less boring and would make us think twice which team we take to face them

I like the coin toss for pve idea.

Could even make it just top 100 have hidden defense. Gives more reason to stay at the top all week.

[Peppoah]

Good afternoon all

Today's tale will be about how David (myself) defeated The Goliath and despite that I have won... I've lost due to ''lost connection with the server (APMA3)... I think the story is somewhat linked with planned ''adjustments'' as our Sparton used to call them (correct me if I am wrong, ok?)... Let's start from the begining though... Yesterday's night I dare to say I had the most tough and longsome battle in the arena so far I guess...

The opponents' team:

Mummy Eddie (armed with Shell talis, I believe)
Green SSD (Counterstrike & Invisiblity)
The Nomad (Counterstrike & Life talis)
GCR (usual stuff, I think)

Myself:

Viking Eddie (common available talis)
Green SSD (as above)
MCR (as above)
GCR (as above)

The fate wasn't favorable to me (as pretty much always, BTW)... They went first and the hell was unleashed as Mummy started...



Opposite to you, dear Sparton I AM... That's my only hope I could be able to fight in the arena a bit longer... and survive... Nevertheless MCR went down first taunted & countered by invisible SSD... Even if I had put 3 greens in her backpack... Sure you can say it was obvious suicide pulling her against 2 sentinels in the team... True, but did just on purpose just because she could be helpful to steal some goodies... Haven't got a chance, to even try at first... As you can see Sparton she's can be pretty easily out of the field... So why the nerf? Leave her be as she is, please...

Nedless to say that in a short while after I left with just GCR, who fought back against outnumbered enemies, refusing to die against all odds, as they've lost only Mummy in the fight... After 3 turns I could finally catch some breath - began to slowly ressurrect the fallen comrades as I had plenty of power points I haven't got the chance to use for some time, and make the battle lasts and lasts...

Eventually the fortune helped me a bit and at some point I was the one with Green SSD who kept distracted the hostile GCR of ressurrecting her friends... In the meantime I've received ingame warning that ''only 3 minutes left''... I had waited till the hostile GCR would be having partially broken shield, used fury of ressurrected Viking - thank you and goodnight, GCR... Hallelujah! But shortly after enormous long loading screen after victory animation I've received a note about APMA3... I know that bugs might be happen... Today checked this one out and it was stated as ''defeat''... Why if I may ask, please - if lost connection with YOUR server and the bug was on your side - why to punish me with defeat, despite that I've won? Why just don't let it be as the fight hasn't happen yet, if something like that will occur in the future?

Some conclusions of my story to consider, please:

1. No need to nerf NCR, really - she can be annoying, but sure not overpowered and easy to wipe out IMHO... (I speak for her, because I use her, yet it could be said about the other chars as well)...
2. As I already said this one somewhere else - I like challenges, but how about make the chances even a bit, please and make all those super power talis available to all, but not as fake ''promotions'' but as usual drop in SL (Talisman horde), even one once a week, instead of those freaking freezing sorcery I am receiving almost daily?
3. Fix the bugs that crashing the game, ie. causing people loosing even if they've won... Totally not cool and I DON'T WANT to loose that way...

Cheers,

W

There's one thing that I don't understand. The SSD is Soulless Demon, right? It can't have invisibility and counter talismans, as there are three green slots?
But I know the problem very well when you lose a hard fight just because of APMA. It should be like you wrote as the fight never happened.

[Mariner-1212]

It would be a scary thought to face a defense team without knowing what they were, but would be fun nonetheless, especially for the top players.

Speaking of that, it would be good to have a coin toss for PVE as well, to decide who goes first...would make PvE less boring and would make us think twice which team we take to face them

Maybe there could be a LIVE PVP version, where you actually play against another player in real-time. All matchups would be picked at random, and you'd go in with your team without knowing the other team at all. There would of course be some lag between each device as the server relayed the gameplay to the other player and waited for his responses... but it could be cool. Of course, the level of complaints that it would cause would make it not worth the effort one bit to develop

[slauki]

My primary reason for playing PvP is for iron coins as well. I don't think it would defeat that purpose, it would just make it more challenging. Arena store prices might need to be adjusted if it affects too many people's ability to gain iron coins, but overall I wouldn't think that would change much. It would only make it more of a challenge to compete for top spots.

If someone wanted to strictly farm for iron coins, they could just have a token defense. That way they could stay below the top 250 and always see what they're facing. Those wanting higher ranks would have to work harder to earn it. Maybe the rewards could even be bumped up to make it more worthwhile.

So far, the only real argument against it that I see is it could make it harder to beat the defense. Wow! If that's what people are worried about, why not do away with defense entirely and it can be about who spends the most on Sow. The AI is generally predictable, so you still have that advantage, everyone would just have to use a more balanced team.

there would be another problem i feel. you would have one default team which you would took to every fight. so basicly 4 toons vs unknowns. the real interesting part is adapting to the enemy and choosing a team that will beat him most likely. you would limit yourself and your options a alot which would be very boring soon. or you would write down the defense of the opponent and choose the proper toons against him, which would end in the same result as now only with much more effort. i would create a database for every pvp opoonent for sure and i'm not alone. prolly we would have the first thread 12 hours after the change with many enemies and there defenses

[Askora]

there would be another problem i feel. you would have one default team which you would took to every fight. so basicly 4 toons vs unknowns. the real interesting part is adapting to the enemy and choosing a team that will beat him most likely. you would limit yourself and your options a alot which would be very boring soon. or you would write down the defense of the opponent and choose the proper toons against him, which would end in the same result as now only with much more effort. i would create a database for every pvp opoonent for sure and i'm not alone. prolly we would have the first thread 12 hours after the change with many enemies and there defenses

Which is why people would learn to rotate their defense frequently. I actually use one primary offense for the most part and I don't think that part makes it boring. I have a few alternates that I plug in from time to time, but one team does most of the work. It gives you incentive to try different combinations to work towards one team that is unbeatable when on offense.

It should be a challenge for ranked positions. I think the fact that the arguments against are because it would make it harder only help to prove that it should be taken as a serious suggestion. Let's give the AI a fair fight.