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exactly what i feel. it's not very smart to constantly demotivate the players, even the toughest one will say "screw it" one day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
but we talked abut this issue a lot, so what can we say, that the devs don't know already? really don't get it, should be the easiest fix of all.
OTAH when matchmaking significantly reduces the number of attacks, this is a progress, but without changes in the pointsystem pvp will loose players every week.
Attack Wins - 63% (212/335)
Defence Wins - 19% (18/96)
I'm done with arena for a while now. I seemed to be on the receiving end of that bug so I thought I'd try and use it to my advantage. I was never likely to affect the top players, best I usually get is around 1900. But when I was around 1950 I thought I'd have a go at reaching Warlord I and get the Skill Shard for the achievement. Each time I got into the high 2000's luck would just go against. Against one team, with a Prisoner he went first 7 times. 7 Times!! How can you compete well when luck is against you like that? I know after 2 times I probably should have gave up, but he was the last team on my list and I got determined to prove to myself that I'm only losing because of the toss. When I finally went first I won. I'm aware my attack team could do with work or I could have but a more defensive team in, it's a pain in the arse preparing a team if you don't know who's going to go first. On my my bugs with it.
4 times this week I tried to reach Warlord I and 3 time the same thing happened. I got to the last team on the list and they went first 4, 5 and 7 times. I wasted so much ironite this week.
4th time I finally reach over 2100 but not ranked top 50. I have 3 SoW left and one team left to clear. A Prisoner team. Thinking I'd learn my lessons from the last times I refresh the list and get a new list. All were ranked 300 to 500 points less than me. 3 battles 3 times I don't go first and because of the stupid points system I've lost 60 points and no way near Warlord I anymore.
Sure you all think it's my crappy team/bad strategy/whatever and you may have a point. Just sick of how the arena is at the moment. I'm giving it up for a while, I'll do my 3 battles a day and that's it. Will see what it's like after the Prisoner nerf or in 3 weeks when I can't buy any more Skill Shards.
If anyone is interested I'm just fed up with the luck needed, the toss, how taunt is done in the game and the points system. Revamp the whole points system, get rid off the toss (speed stats is how I'd do it but that's a different subject) and get it so we control the taunt not AI and it'll revamp my interest. Till then or for a while at least, I'll just have a break and sound like a toddler throwing his toys out the pram.
Best of luck to everyone still competing and having fun in the arena. I wish I was still enjoying it as much as you.
I don't know if it matters much but here are my stats like week. Didn't attack much just revenged a lot. Attack 86%(98/115) Defense 30%(46/154).
I don't know how my defense is surprisingly a lot better the week before it was like 15%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90mphyorker
Man I totally agree with you either the RNG is on your side or it isn't.
I'm sure they track. Of course we're limited to "Case reports" from individual players as opposed to comprehensive statistics. But it just seems like the negativity continues to grow; perhaps that's the way of forums. But I agree - it seems like an obvious and easy thing to fix. I know they want defensive choices to matter; rewarding Holds without penalizing defensive losses (or minimal penalty) seems like a win-win scenarioQuote:
Originally Posted by slauki
Matchmaking has reduced the number of attacks for some of us - but obviously some are still getting lots a disproportionate number of attacks - and the corresponding drop in score.
Stats for last week:
Rank: 24
Points: 2908
Attacks: 493
Defenses: 394
Noticed early in the week that I was getting attacked a lot more, so I figured I would try and keep up and see exactly what I was working with now that i'm not affected by the bug anymore. Given that I had it easy the first few weeks of PVP i'm not going to complain, but it felt like an uphill battle the whole week. The only reason that I was up 99 attacks was that I used 1-2 SoW refills per day each day of the week, plus at least 5 on Saturday, otherwise I would have been overrun by attacks.
Agreed, quite the roller coaster ride for 25th. Felt like I went above and below the line at least 10 times that day. There was one point 2 hours before reset that Jofer attacked me and I was thinking "Really?!, you don't have enough points?", but then I saw he was going for 10k (congrats btw Jofer!). Hats off to those fighters around that rank, it was a real challenge this week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentknight
The lists do seem a bit off still. I was in the top 50 the entire week and top 25 for part of it, yet rarely saw a lot of the players above me.
Spent way too much time on Saturday trying to fight the tide and make top 25, going to just use the free SoW this week and see what I look like on Saturday.
My stats, Attacked 178 times, Defended 101, final points 2042. Just playing for the iron coins. I think part of how much you are attacked depends a lot on your playing strategy. I can't guarantee it, but I'm pretty sure I can tell exactly what will bring up the number of attacks against me. I know I showed up on Jofer's list at least twice and Nicko's at least once. Think differently on your playing, maybe you'll see a change in defenses.
Yeah,he nailed me a few times too! A$$hole! Lmao,think he got everyone! Happy to a part of it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Coletrain
119 attacks, 118 x attacked... how's that for balance?
The one saving grace for PvP is 4 extra skill shards and that one Lengendary soul per month that wasn't there before. It's easy enough to get the 2400 iron coins needed to make it happen without investing too much time, money or energy so I can live with it.
I'm really looking foward to some new content though! All this NerFing, balancing toons shit is really make this game feel like a wobbly roller coaster.. it's getting old!
nerfing is really not the solution, I do not have a Prisoner, but he really is no issue. For me the issue is that I got attacked 133 times more than I actually attacked and that I have to spend so much Ironite just to catch up... If you count 14 points loss on average per attack, I lost 390 Ironites and 1892 points just on the imbalance... If I had been attacked like Nicko only 40% of my attacks then I lost > 4000 points... This is what makes me sick.
The nerfing seems to be an excuse to lead us to think that things are improving nut making sure we keep spending... It clearly isn't the answer and has people pissed off all over the forums...
It just gets more and more odd doesn't it. For the first time I had a much better balance last week than ever before so that for me was good as it meant I needed to play less and got my highest ranking so far with a push on Saturday. I broke top 50 at last! Got to 47 with 2518 points (just) made 310 attacks and was attacked 334 so that is the best I have ever seen.
Now that to me clearly shows that if you are attacked less it is so much easier to climb and you need to spend and play less to get there - that is very easy to see as AI is so poor that number of attacks on you is only going to pull you down. The devs still need to fix this.
The oddities continue for me on another aspect - once the reset happened a shot into the top 20 for the first time ever - I had made number of attacks after the reset (but here is the thing) not a single person attacked me during my attacks so for some reason I leapt up the table with only one refill (maybe 2 - I think). So now I am sitting at number 12 as I write this because I have attacked 74 times with 100% record) and been attacked only 38 times (still with a rubbish hold of 13% - I just cannot get my defence to do better and I do not get it but must be talisman or something I need to fine tune but cannot figure it out). I notice a number of other people starting use my defence strategy that I have used since I started PVP by using a corrupt droid - for the first time last week I started to see more of these and red pyros too.
So for once I seem to be benefitting from the issues so I will take that when I can get it as so far had very little RNG luck - sacrifice has been far from helpful other than getting skill shards and emptying out the dupes - but still it is better than not having it. PVP is to easy on attack and to difficult on defence as AI is poor as I know my toons are super strong and no different to much of what I attack - something is not right but even I know that a few people who attacked me struggled as they were held time after time.
I am still on board with others views that I really am sick of nerfs - I am not sure anyone benefits from them other than if a toons is just set up wrong and not doing what it should be of if you are trying to bring new toons into PVP - nerfing is not the answer - new toons are. Why do people moan about Prisoner when he seems quite easy to counter with immunity? I can beat Prisoner teams and other were beating mine easily enough - even taunt teams do not bother me much as I am set up for that and bad coins tosses - why cant others have immunity talisman on - I see a lot with both defence and immunity on at the same time and even they can be beaten if you set up right.
For me it is the defence AI that is destroying the will to play and also the bad matchmaking - I had an almost level attack/defence last week for the first time and massively benefitted. This week I am benefitting even more and I can now see how a lot of other got so high while attacking so little - they did not need to because they were hardly being attacked.....to me that is the thing that has to be fixed, not nerfs!
My two cents of course!
I ended at #72
350 attacks
330 attacked
That's 94% :D
With my sooo good defense it's a mess. (lower than 10% hold)
So I invest ironite to be in #100...
I have the impression to have been attacked the whole week by higher ranking teams.
For memory previous weeks I was in the pool of "no attacked" teams.
270/107 for a 40% ratio previous week.
So I think we could this improvment to have everyone playing along the same "rules".
Ah, and for info I did not see Nicko once as well as Jofer if it was not in my defense list.
May I was too low in points but that's odd if because they are so far away in points they are not in attack list anymore...
209-Att
256-Def
Theres is some progress, also noted that if I completely stop play arena for almost a day.. At the end of that same day I seems to vanish from lists & it starts over as soon as I play a match..
Most of the week it hoovered around 1:1 Saturday kind of screw things up a bit..
The new updates will be welcome (minus some overreacting over Prisoner & AoP) it's looking good, not played much this week but without 2 nasty crashes I'd have a perfect 100% and don't think it should happen in ANY PvP games..
All the people with high defensive attack numbers were probably just on Jofer's lists,lmao!!! Hey Sag!
Attachment 2734
Since i can't obtain decent toons because of "bad luck" and with the current toss and point system being crap i will only gather the required coins for the store every week from now on.
Out of interest, what toons do you have? I don't have Prisoner, Allied General, Corrupt General, Angel of Strife, or many of the premium Eddies, yet I still managed a 96% win rate this week (and no I don't use Mummy either). Arena will always involve a little luck, but as long as you select the right talismans and pick a sensible team that works together, it is possible to get decent results even without natural 5* characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMurray
Defense is a lottery, and points system badly designed, but on attack you can get good results if you just do the best with what you've got.
This I noticed as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sag7272
My stats for last week are:
Position - 13
Attacks - 278
Defense - 223
These figures are somewhat biased now as I did not intend to be so active in the Arena last week, but the double Arena store reset caught me by surprise. I was participating in a darts competition on Saturday, got home 2 hours before weekly reset and I for sure didn't want to lose the opportunity on talismans, souls and the skill shard, so in the last 2 hours I ground PvP like a maniac, gaining 1k+ points and around 1800 coins - I am using the same team indifferent of defending team layout.
Prisoner, you will be missed. Thank you Jofer for the proper memorial both here on the forum and in the Arena as well.
Ended 19th with 2958 pts.
Attacks: 256 (got lots of SoW from sacrifice)
Attacked: 84
Ratio: 0.33
The ratio looks low, but it was the highest one for me ever, usually near was 0.25. The "issue" with the matching algorithm is definitly fixed, I feel it extremely in the new week: my ratio since last reset ist going towards 2 (200%) and with my still miserable defence rate it feels really bad :D I'm curious about my final position this week. it could be a very good week for me, as since I got (finally!) my Hellhound, my win rate is improved from ~75% to over 95%, but with the new (but usual for other players) amount of defenses I hope to keep the 1700 point level :cool:
Tier: Warlord III
Rank: 107
Points: 2148
Attacks: 79% (168/213)
Defense: 16% (23/145)
I decided to go for Warlord and finally get the skill shard achievement so I attacked a little more than usual. I was attacked a lot less than before but my hold rate is at it's worst ever. Probably because I began to face the stronger teams like Nicko, Jofer and others and frankly Prisoner teams are killing me.
But now with that achievement out of the way I don't see myself spending any more on SOW. I still want to get coins for skill shards and the 1x/month Legendary Soul (which will disappoint) but I don't see myself putting this amount of effort on PvP in the future.
ATT: 79
DEF: 228
Ratio: 2.89
Well that's disproportional to say the least. :SQuote:
Originally Posted by iPoop
Congratulations to Jofer for getting the 10000. I ran into a wall at the 2500 point range where attacks picked up a lot, was stuck there for probably 2 hours while consistantly winning matches but not gaining points. Overall attacks were down until Saturday.
Ended at rank 31
Attacks 360
Attacked 334
Defense was 16% hold rate but I experimented more. Obviously Corrupt Generals don't stun everyone else at 90% because mine wasn't holding anyone.
Well,
List issue still a problem, Nicko attacked 566 times and got attacked 211? And Patrice attacked 269 and got attacked 402?!?
Wow
Here my stats
Attacked 358
Defenses 288
Some improvement on matchmaking, but still a big issue
This was first week I found out what everyone was complaining about. This week my attacks were 216 and defenses were 310. Ratio of 143%. This was first time this happened to me for weeks I probably had a 40-60% ratio. So looks like the fixing in the attack list got me but didn't help some others.
a buddy of mine had an interesting theory that people on the top doesn't show up as often as midranks and lowranks. this seems to be true, every list refresh gives me 80% lower ranks 15% similar ranks and only the occational highrank is there. this would explain the low attack numbers for some top guns like nicko. he is getting attacked even less in reality, because we have to take into account that many attacks leads to many revenges. so maybe ge got only attacked 50 times from a list and 150times through revenges or something like that.
last week i was also benefiting from less attacks so that it was pretty doable to come into top 50, this week i got more attacks, let'S see how this will continue. anyway it's highly unfair, as i wrote in another thread because someone with 400 attacks cannot be competitive in the arena when you compare him with someone who has only 150 or less attacks (assuming similar initial attack numbers). basicly some guys are playing under different conditions which is kinda rigged. if the devs would stop punishing defense losses this wouldn't be an issue. but with this point system is making this disbalances even worse. they unintentionally support the unfairness. they should at least remove point losses till matchmaking is fixed imo. try a more positive approach and let people profit from holds without loosing on losses and you will see more happy pvp players out there i guarantee.
Which makes complete sense, there are way more people in the low and mid ranks so of course you're going to show up more. It has to be setup that way, if higher ranks always showed up, everyone would only attack us. With win rates so high it would be pointless to do anything but cherry pick higher ranks for more points per win. No reason to clear a list, just cherry pick the high ranks and reset over and over. That would destroy the system even more with the current settings.Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
Put in the work and grind up to the top, people shouldnt be gifted the chance to face people that are putting way more effort into the game and easily drag them down. Everyone seems to have a bit of entitlement that they should be able to put in minimal effort and get the same results as people who put in more, I just disagree.
This is how all ladder style competition works in pretty much every game I've played. You don't face the top unless you grind up to it.
Leading to an easy living on top, burn some at the begining of the week and rest on your lovorics while others get stuck and frustrated, please don't encourage that unfairness. Whatever you man say can't be taken into account as an abuser of broken system and definite outlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
Anyhow, I had a feeling it will be like this, as I wrote 2 months ago, in that 1., 2., 3. Threads in general discussion, when noone cared (with a few exceptions of honest and reasonable guys) so I gave it a push early in the week and I enjoyed easy living not showing up on lower ranked lists.
Give it a check on those threads as I saw some similar ides poping out recently.
On Tuesday, when ranking settled, my lists were full of siege with owerpowerd, taunt overrated, shield owertweaked, owertweaked by all means SSD, on who I still admire the work of Sparton, where I lost most of the fights not owning pris. It was so disappointing for me being right I virtually stoped, and let me slide down. had at that moment 250 att made.
Enjoy
Attachment 2736
i get your point but i if you attack 1500 times you should receive more attacks than some random top 100 guy who only uses his natural gained sow everything. it seems that nicko doesn't show up on many lists. sure there are less top 25 guys than midrank guys but i'm talking about that the top guns could be attacked far less often then their deserved and intended share due to a broken matchmaking. it's just a theory so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
and what's your definition of top? a top 100 guy should be able to see some top 10 guys from time to time some top 50 guy should be able to see them even more IMO, while a top 1000 guy shouldn't see them at all. so it's just a matter of balance and it could easily be that the current system is still broken as hell.
EDIT: just saw caretakers reply, yeah early rushes could be the solution to get rid of the annoying attacks and then grinding all alone in the top ranges. so basicly the rich are getting richer again and benefiting even more than they should. i agree that people who put in more effort have to had some advantage (just balance it ;) )
If you think it's easy on top then do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caretaker
Yeah I was just going to edit, would be nice if people on the top saw each other more, I rarely see Nicko it seems like and don't remember my last list with him in it. May be a factor of the new feature to reduce multiple attacks though.Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
Jofer dont get all offended that people are criticizng the system. You obviously would still win every week no matter what.
The problem is that what youre saying would be unfair for you at the top is exactly whats happening to people lower in the top 50-100. We are all getting dragged down by getting attacked by lower ranks. Then you see people in the top 15-25 with worse stats than you cause the devs insist on this system where you are playing against "teams with similar characters of similar levels" or whatever the hell they said/meant.
The top guys are just getting further and further from the pack by maxing toons in a week that take the rest of us months. But there are also some lucky non top guys who get to jump ahead cause of less attacks.
Its all very discouraging for the rest of us. We... Are... The 99% (haha)
Sid-2370
Don't play fool on me, too old :cool: I'm not that eager, read my intro post. You rock, no argument there, I'm not aiming that high, I'm not cool enough. Enjoy the game, help it get fixed if u can, if not, don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
Jofer & Niko have VERY good defense, that's why they are on top. I'm sure they get as many attacks as most of us but with good defense % they would get higher ranks. People shouldn't hate but the luck they have with not getting the necessary characters to be on top of the ranks. I don't hold any grudge against the top guys but I hate the luck I got in the game. I have played since the start of this game religiously every day 5-6 hrs and even more and never got what I wished for, I call this bad luck that's all!
Basically my point here is that we can't attack each other on the forum, leave it for the F***ed up PVP :p
Peace!
Some of my thoughts on the subject of attacks vs. defenses. I believe Sparton had stated that the more active you are on offense, the more you'll show up on the lists. So, the more you play, the more you get hit. Other factors to consider is, how many of the defenses are the same person hitting you trying to clear a list? How many are revenges? There is a lot more than just the number of attacks vs. defends to consider. Style of play makes a lot of difference. It's all based on an algorithm and you just have to figure out what makes the algorithm happy. Raw numbers are ok, but without the factors behind them they don't show the whole picture.
Part of what drives my lower number of attacks is my crummy defense, most people only have to attack it once to defeat it. I can generally clear my lists pretty easy, although once in a while I have the RNG doing a serious number on me. Rank plays a big part too, the higher your rank to a point, the bigger a target you become.
My rank isn't what some of you are trying to achieve, but I think without an extremely good defense your rank is a very steep climb in the top 100. A defensive hold rate in the 15-20% range will probably only drive attacks up, due to repeated attacks by the same people. Personally, the rank doesn't mean much to me since my team is definitely not top 10 material and rare souls only seem to bring me harpies.
Anyway, that's just my thoughts on it. My playing style is primarily clearing lists, no matter the names on it (Sorry Tritium).
I agree that it's a screwy point system, but it's what we have to play right now. So, the best bet is to learn how to make it work for you. I can't imagine it'll be better with the new nerfs coming up. Would far rather have seen an upgrade to AI than that. But, that's what the devs have decided, so that's what we're stuck with.
We can't be friends anymore. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Askora
Haha, just playing. If you need help building a defense team, feel free to pm me and I'll do my best to help ya out!
I support you here! beeing on top is really hard, you grind hard and gain 120 points in quite a time and 1 or 2 loses and you lose 40 points in 1 minute or less. That is way frustrating. Every defense has a counter and with a high % win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
Sorry for my late reply, i read your post but i was a bit busy with work this days and had no spare time to answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
Almost all my defeats happen when i loose the toss and for 2 rounds i am taunted, stunned and frozen so there's nothing i can do.
I am aware of ways to counter those but i lack the necessary tools and toons to do it.
Add a few "bad luck" defeats that got me mad(f.e. this week i had a GRE attack me 8 times in a row, Horrow-extra turn-Slash proc 3 times-extra turn from AoF-Horrow-extra turn-Slash proc 3 times and a CG both stun and freeze all my team at once).
I'll gather a few shards and wait for the tuning update, then i will give PvP a shot again, until then i will spend all my SoW daily but i will be testing toons.
Hey no problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMurray
If you don't have something to provide immunity, then going against taunt-freeze-stun teams is going to end badly. Run through your list without attacking and if it's full of that sort of team, refresh - that often gets a slightly lower ranked list of teams, then do your battles first against teams you feel confident against, not just in the order they appear. If you wait to hit the harder teams on your list, by the time you face them, you should then have some win streak buffs which will help a lot.
Keep cherry picking battles to get iron coins and go for skill shards, with anything extra towards the legendary soul. Only buy rare souls if you have a big surplus of iron coins.
I keep seeing the congrats banner pop up in PvP and it's says Jofer, Nicko and FallenAngel but when I look at last weeks ranker it shows "alex" in the 3rd spot and FallenAngel in 4th... is my PvP ranker wrong or is Alex not seeing the love? Just wondering if I'm the only one who noticed or if it was already addressed.
Mine's right,shows Alex. Ur probably just a little behind...like ur Kings! Lol! mjmxiii=true fan!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmxiii