April 2017 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Sag7272]

Actually, to further clarify, it seems I might have been mistaken with the priorities of conflicting effects from passives that should trigger at the same time. The intent is that Immunity talismans would work fine, but a character's passive (such as Hellhound's Repeal) does not take precedent over the Prisoner's Passive Aggression debuffs, so Hellhound is not an answer at the beginning of combat (but may help later in combat).

Tanks! Way was written let though otherwise... Lost in my translations I guess, tanks for clarifying, at least we'll all talk about same things

[gmac]

Actually, to further clarify, it seems I might have been mistaken with the priorities of conflicting effects from passives that should trigger at the same time. The intent is that Immunity talismans would work fine, but a character's passive (such as Hellhound's Repeal) does not take precedent over the Prisoner's Passive Aggression debuffs, so Hellhound is not an answer at the beginning of combat (but may help later in combat).

If that is the case I take back all I said, It should never affect all toons. Caretaker is right, 25% will be better. This kills all passives first round and we would still have much of the same problems as now.

It would be much better if immunity countered it, and if immunity not on then it's instantly on the enemy toon

Sparton, have you guys settled on how it will work?

Cheers
Gmac

[Caretaker]

I so hate when I'm right about the wrong things so please go with that slim nerf and all happy. Nothing changes but a slim hope it won't target key toone at least once. So I didn't get all the owners panic, you will still storm through lists with a good backup.

In general @sag I am myself agains any nerf, ever since blue allied, over cg etc.. I proposed other ways with arena modifiers but nerfing was the way chosen. So now this has to be done. And I stil wote for SSD overrated taunt proc nerf and a fix on aof passive.

And I want to say I was very pleased when gimp was not doing imposible thing any more and am looking forward to some toones being pumped up for a change, no matter if it's 2* wolf or a skull or a 3* harpy!

[Sparton_LOTB]

This is going to be an interesting update...how is that timeframe looking there Sparton? One thing is certain, we are all eager to see what you guys come up with!

Timeline is still mid-April. We don't have anything more specific than that right now.

Tanks! Way was written let though otherwise... Lost in my translations I guess, tanks for clarifying, at least we'll all talk about same things

Yeah, I though it would work as I originally implied as well. I'll make sure we clarify that in the final patch notes when the update goes live.

If that is the case I take back all I said, It should never affect all toons. Caretaker is right, 25% will be better. This kills all passives first round and we would still have much of the same problems as now.

Passive Aggression still only affects character passives, so it just means you'll need to rely on talisman set effects more when you have an enemy Prisoner involved (Immunity Talismans if there's a character passive you want, Shell for more survivability, Invisibility to try and avoid death, etc). There's also more talismans we want to drip feed out in the future, and then the (now massive) backlog of new talismans that'll arrive with Brave New World.

Sparton, have you guys settled on how it will work?

We're still trying out some alternatives and see how they work in mock scenarios we expect to see in PVP, in addition to hammering edge cases to eliminate bugs around the adjusted functionality.

[Silentknight]

It is really funny couse Im searching but I didnt find yet who want to make all pieces equal hahahahah

Maybe balance has been mistaken for equity, but thats ok to haha

You will never find equality or balance with RNG!

[HomemLivre]

You will never find equality or balance with RNG!

I think diferently, its possible to find balance when all characters act as designed in a scenario when none of then are broken.

[gmac]

Passive Aggression still only affects character passives, so it just means you'll need to rely on talisman set effects more when you have an enemy Prisoner involved (Immunity Talismans if there's a character passive you want, Shell for more survivability, Invisibility to try and avoid death, etc). There's also more talismans we want to drip feed out in the future, and then the (now massive) backlog of new talismans that'll arrive with Brave New World.

Hi Sparton

The problem is not on defense, is on offense.

If it affects all toons and passives first round Prisoner teams will go same on offense as they are going right now. And that is the real problem. People that have him will still have huge advantage and will rotate with less toons on offense, will not deal with troll, accuracy up etc, nothing will change for them.

Prisoner owners were complaining it should affect everybody exactly because they thought immunity prevented it first round.

This is a huge mistake if you decide to go this way.

On a different matter, could you give us more info on the new talismans?

Cheers
Gmac

[Silentknight]

I think diferently, its possible to find balance when all characters act as designed in a scenario when none of then are broken.

So improve AI & bugs,got it

[Kaz_LOTB]

Hi Sparton

The problem is not on defense, is on offense.

If it affects all toons and passives first round Prisoner teams will go same on offense as they are going right now. And that is the real problem. People that have him will still have huge advantage and will rotate with less toons on offense, will not deal with troll, accuracy up etc, nothing will change for them.

Prisoner owners were complaining it should affect everybody exactly because they thought immunity prevented it first round.

This is a huge mistake if you decide to go this way.

On a different matter, could you give us more info on the new talismans?

Cheers
Gmac

Just to clarify, Immunity does prevent it. This includes Immunity from Talismans and Skills. However, the reason the Hellhound may not affect it on the first turn is because his passive is the thing granting the immunity buff and if the Prisoner disables his passive, he will not grant the immunity buff to everyone.

The disable passive effect is blocked by Immunity in every case where it is not directly tied to a passive that has been disabled (i.e. The corrupt sentinel droid or warrior pyro soldier can cast Immunity on their team second round and the disable passive effect will be blocked by it, you can equip the Hellhound with Immunity Talismans so that his passive does not get blocked on the first turn and he therefore grants Immunity to his team, etc.)

Hope that clears things up.

-Kaz

[slauki]

You will never find equality or balance with RNG!

i fully agree, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to reach an optimum of fairness and equality, however that looks like IMO.

Hi Sparton

The problem is not on defense, is on offense.

If it affects all toons and passives first round Prisoner teams will go same on offense as they are going right now. And that is the real problem. People that have him will still have huge advantage and will rotate with less toons on offense, will not deal with troll, accuracy up etc, nothing will change for them.

Prisoner owners were complaining it should affect everybody exactly because they thought immunity prevented it first round.

This is a huge mistake if you decide to go this way.

On a different matter, could you give us more info on the new talismans?

Cheers
Gmac

damn i got the nerf wrong too, i thought hellhound would counter prisoner in the first round. what if we put immunity talismans on the hellhound? then his passive could be active and any other passive too.
this could be a counter, or did i get that wrong?

anyway many people doesn't think about the prisoner on offense because it's invisible. on defense prisoner is not much of a threat anymore most of the times, his real quality/opness is maintaining almost 100% winratio if you pair him with the right toons and if you are skilled enough. you can take him against almost every team. paired with the immunity talismans or the hellhound = no tauntfest or freezefest for you, while others stuggle a lot with this.
this is a really HUGE and a game changing advantage. you can play much faster than others so that noone without a prisoner could compare with you, assuming both are playing as much as possible.

so a nerf is really necessary but i'm also against killing characters. he should have his niche like any other 5* out there and stay reasonably strong. i simply hope we will see some good changes soon, so that more fairness is reached....it's really a difficult balancing task though....

EDIT: was typing with kaz as it seems :-)... curious to see the new mechanics, could be interesting :-)