April 2017 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[Nicko]

Yeah, tnx sag, I'll look it up.

Hey, if that is so, the counter to immunizing hh is obviously death dog + prisoner = dd removes talis provided immunity on hh and prisoner's passive does the rest of his job.

That IS possible. But not probable - so likely poor strategy. The Death Dog removes effects from "up to" two characters per round. So let's assume it's two - there is a 50% chance of it being your Hellhound. Then, the Prisoner only has a 50% chance of applying his debuff even if the Deathdog did indeed affect the Hellhound. Not great odds all things considered. I think you'll start seeing more Deathdogs than Prisoners - the added benefit from the Prisoner - with the info we have right now - just doesn't seem that incrementally great.

I have seen very few teams combining the Prisoner with a Blue Bat or DD because of the decrease in firepower or other skills (healing, shields). It simply doesn't make sense - and if we were going to see that combo it would be now - because it has a 100% chance of squashing the new talismans.

So yes - it's possible you may see that if someone wants to roll the dice. But I don't think they'll be very successful.

[Sag7272]

And now I'm stuck asking myself...
With current state update, how would end passive agression if two prisoners happened to face in the arena?

If it works like I understood t'll now...
Initiative's team passive would (possibly) block other team's passive agression thus nullifying 2nd turn Prisoner's passive?
So 2nd turn team would need an immune set to keep passive agression working with 100% chances...

[Silentknight]

And now I'm stuck asking myself...
With current state update, how would end passive agression if two prisoners happened to face in the arena?

If it works like I understood t'll now...
Initiative's team passive would (possibly) block other team's passive agression thus nullifying 2nd turn Prisoner's passive?
So 2nd turn team would need an immune set to keep passive agression working with 100% chances...

Way to 'deep' for me! Just do the update & let's play!!! Soooooo glad we started sharing stats! Nicko's 100% is a problem but 98% w/o prisoner is ok...really! No wait,it's on offence. How the hell does anyone know what I do on offence? One of the ONLY secrets left! Then it's # of times attacked...bugged lists have nothing to do with that??? Having a prisoner might lessen attacks but not by much! Especially when the ones whining about it attack me WAY more than I attack them,with identical hold rates...pathetic! Who you gunna blame after the castration!

[Silentknight]

And now I'm stuck asking myself...
With current state update, how would end passive agression if two prisoners happened to face in the arena?

If it works like I understood t'll now...
Initiative's team passive would (possibly) block other team's passive agression thus nullifying 2nd turn Prisoner's passive?
So 2nd turn team would need an immune set to keep passive agression working with 100% chances...

If ur stuck then we're in serious trouble! Ur the one I look to for advice!!! Nicko,Gmac as well! Told Nicko when this update was announced,with all the things that need to work together it's going to be a MAJOR clusterfu<k! Think toons attacking their own team is bad...just wait!

[Sparton_LOTB]

So no worries - immunity on Hellhound and your Troll shield will work. You'll resist freeze and stun the first round. And with a Red Pyro or Green Droid, youre fine the rest of the match too.

Ding Dong the Gimp is dead...

You've described 3/4 of a team with that, though. I think it's reasonably to theorycraft that, but suddenly you're running a team that's heavily susceptible to strong Magus AoE (such as Grim Reaper Eddie, or perhaps ironically, Angel of Pain).

Of course, we'll see when it goes live.

And now I'm stuck asking myself...
With current state update, how would end passive agression if two prisoners happened to face in the arena?

If it works like I understood t'll now...
Initiative's team passive would (possibly) block other team's passive agression thus nullifying 2nd turn Prisoner's passive?
So 2nd turn team would need an immune set to keep passive agression working with 100% chances...

I'm not 100% sure, but start of combat I believe it rolls the same way it currently does (both sides will fire it), but based on who actually has it at the start of their turn, they may or may not try to suppress passives on their turn. This gives an advantage to the team who went first if the opposing Prisoner was Passive Disabled... unless that other Prisoner transfers the debuff back.

I guess it can become a game of hot potato...

[Tritium]

I'm not 100% sure, but start of combat I believe it rolls the same way it currently does (both sides will fire it), but based on who actually has it at the start of their turn, they may or may not try to suppress passives on their turn. This gives an advantage to the team who went first if the opposing Prisoner was Passive Disabled... unless that other Prisoner transfers the debuff back.

I guess it can become a game of hot potato...

That sounds like quite an amusing scenario haha (the hot potato part). I hadn't even thought of how Prisoner vs. Prisoner will work after the update. Sounds like he may not even be able to counter himself anymore.

[Silentknight]

Challenge accepted. I'm down by 1,000+ points from 1st place now so if I come back there can be no excuses, let's see how the Prisonerless teams fair. Dropping him from offense/defense now...

1200 point lead 5 hrs ago...500 now! Poor FallenAngel!!!

[Caretaker]

That IS possible. But not probable - so likely poor strategy. The Death Dog removes effects from "up to" two characters per round. So let's assume it's two - there is a 50% chance of it being your Hellhound. Then, the Prisoner only has a 50% chance of applying his debuff even if the Deathdog did indeed affect the Hellhound. Not great odds all things considered. I think you'll start seeing more Deathdogs than Prisoners - the added benefit from the Prisoner - with the info we have right now - just doesn't seem that incrementally great.

I have seen very few teams combining the Prisoner with a Blue Bat or DD because of the decrease in firepower or other skills (healing, shields). It simply doesn't make sense - and if we were going to see that combo it would be now - because it has a 100% chance of squashing the new talismans.

So yes - it's possible you may see that if someone wants to roll the dice. But I don't think they'll be very successful.

Nicko my friend, how would you like 50% proc chance on freeze or paralyisis talismans? Would you? That is way too much. People said freez overproced at 35% haha. And what is taunt rate on ssd sharded? and it proc like hell. So basicly 50% means all the time, don't worry.

And it is good we didn't, and good we won't, well it is a diversity goal here, isn't it? Don't you want it?

And a few other things. If you go second, knowing you, viking will loot for whatever you want and came out of the passives, and some speed of light could be used in some trade. If you go first, yeah, you won't kill or cc all the bad creatures at once like u used to which is good and gives defences a chance

Wellcome to rolling the dice, the game that most of the people are still playing.

[Nicko]

Nicko my friend, how would you like 50% proc chance on freeze or paralyisis talismans? Would you? That is way too much. People said freez overproced at 35% haha. And what is taunt rate on ssd sharded? and it proc like hell. So basicly 50% means all the time, don't worry.

And it is good we didn't, and good we won't, well it is a diversity goal here, isn't it? Don't you want it?

And a few other things. If you go second, knowing you, viking will loot for whatever you want and came out of the passives, and some speed of light could be used in some trade. If you go first, yeah, you won't kill or cc all the bad creatures at once like u used to which is good and gives defences a chance

Wellcome to rolling the dice, the game that most of the people are still playing.

It's 50% chance to disable a passive - big difference than being stunned . And many will bring a Troll and Hellhound in anyway - I know I always do if facing a non-Prisoner team - so putting immunity on the Hellhound is no big deal

I'm not denying it's a different game without the Prisoner and a nerf is needed. I did almost the entire beta with no Troll successfully - got one at the end - and a Prisoner nerf will just cause those of us blowing through teams with him to rethink things. And in a game that can get repetitive - that's not a bad thing

[Jofer16]

1200 point lead 5 hrs ago...500 now! Poor FallenAngel!!!

All caught up now, after beating my head against the wall last night and a bit this morning things really started to click. Let's see how much ironite Fallen wants to blow haha now my engines are firing on all cylinders.

And just in case anyone thinks I'm sneaking Prisoner on offense just take a look, I removed his talismans to use on other toons when I made the switch. He's still rocking a pair of boosts but that's because my inventory was full when swapping them out and was too lazy to sell a couple. This should be a clear indicator he's been on my bench while attacking.

Oh and sorry for all the attacks silent, you keep perpetually showing up on my lists