April 2017 Tuning Discussion - PRELIMINARY

[CanyptianFit]

Just to clarify, Immunity does prevent it. This includes Immunity from Talismans and Skills. However, the reason the Hellhound may not affect it on the first turn is because his passive is the thing granting the immunity buff and if the Prisoner disables his passive, he will not grant the immunity buff to everyone.

The disable passive effect is blocked by Immunity in every case where it is not directly tied to a passive that has been disabled (i.e. The corrupt sentinel droid or warrior pyro soldier can cast Immunity on their team second round and the disable passive effect will be blocked by it, you can equip the Hellhound with Immunity Talismans so that his passive does not get blocked on the first turn and he therefore grants Immunity to his team, etc.)

Hope that clears things up.

-Kaz

Ah, that's huge Kaz, and assume that this applies both to offense and defense. As a prisoner-less player that will make a huge difference in my win rate, but dang, still seems like a heavy blow to those with the prisoner. It's not as bad as the prisoner now doesn't override passives (which is what was presumed) it's that he overrides passive unless they have immunity via talismans on first/second round, and via granting thereafter.

So hypothetically, if I have the green bat with immunity on the first round his passive is active against a prisoner, but if I lose immunity with the prisoner still alive on the other team, that passive gets removed by the prisoner in a subsequent round. Would that be right?

[Nicko]

Keep in mind even with no immunity there's only a 50% chance the toon will get debuffed

So put immunity on your Hellhound, bring a Red Pyro, and the Prisoner will be a complete non-issue on defense.

On offense? Less predictable to defend against - but if there is a Pyro or Droid in your defense there's a good chance he won't be a major factor there either.

[Silentknight]

Keep in mind even with no immunity there's only a 50% chance the toon will get debuffed

So put immunity on your Hellhound, bring a Red Pyro, and the Prisoner will be a complete non-issue on defense.

On offense? Less predictable to defend against - but if there is a Pyro or Droid in your defense there's a good chance he won't be a major factor there either.

Elite to unwanted! Things that don't grow...die! And other happy thoughts!

[Sparton_LOTB]

So hypothetically, if I have the green bat with immunity on the first round his passive is active against a prisoner, but if I lose immunity with the prisoner still alive on the other team, that passive gets removed by the prisoner in a subsequent round. Would that be right?

The Passive Disable is a negative status effect that tries to apply at the start of the Prisoner's team's turn. Immunity counts down it's duration at the start of the turn of the team the character is on. Therefore, under normal circumstances, when Immunity's duration runs out (or it is stolen/removed), you won't immediately get a Passive Disable status effect, because the timing of that rarely coincides with when Immunity will be going away.

[CanyptianFit]

Sorry Sparton, not clear enough with my example.

So round 1 immunity is active with talisman.

Beginning of round 2 I don't have immunity at all, there is a 50% chance my passive will be blocked by prisoner?

I'm not worried about round 1, considering round 2 and beyond.

[Jofer16]

The Passive Disable is a negative status effect that tries to apply at the start of the Prisoner's team's turn. Immunity counts down it's duration at the start of the turn of the team the character is on. Therefore, under normal circumstances, when Immunity's duration runs out (or it is stolen/removed), you won't immediately get a Passive Disable status effect, because the timing of that rarely coincides with when Immunity will be going away.

This explanation brings back flashbacks of reading the MTG rule book haha

[Sparton_LOTB]

Sorry Sparton, not clear enough with my example.

So round 1 immunity is active with talisman.

Beginning of round 2 I don't have immunity at all, there is a 50% chance my passive will be blocked by prisoner?

I'm not worried about round 1, considering round 2 and beyond.

Not immediately.

Regardless of who goes first, your Immunity wielder will be protected at the start of combat, as noted above. Also, your Immunity from that talisman will last until the end of your opponent's first turn (assuming you have a single set).

If you go first, then that means the start of combat Passive Aggression doesn't affect your character. Once your turn is over, it's the enemy's turn, and Passive Aggression will trigger again (still not able to affect your Immune character). Once the enemy's turn is over, Immunity wears off, but you still don't have Passive Disable on the character who was Immune (that doesn't have a chance of reapplying until the start of the enemy's next turn).

If your opponent goes first, it's a similar deal. Start of combat Passive Aggression still doesn't affect you, and once the enemy finishes their turn, the Immunity wears off (like any 1 turn defensive status effect would), but you still won't have a chance of Passive Disable being on that character until the end of your first turn (ie just before the enemy is starting their second turn).

This explanation brings back flashbacks of reading the MTG rule book haha

Man, it's been a while for me, that's for sure...

[gmac]

Keep in mind even with no immunity there's only a 50% chance the toon will get debuffed

So put immunity on your Hellhound, bring a Red Pyro, and the Prisoner will be a complete non-issue on defense.

On offense? Less predictable to defend against - but if there is a Pyro or Droid in your defense there's a good chance he won't be a major factor there either.

Nicko, no man, you're wrong.

Because of the complaints on the nerf they are now considering applying the debuff to EVERY TOON, EVERY ROUND.

But the complaints happened because everybody thought every immunity would counter it, INCLUDING HH AND ART DOG.

This is a big mess, if the debuff is indeed applied to every toon at the start of the battle, there is pretty much no difference, all passives will still be useless, and nothing will change on offence for prisoners teams, you will kill all passives first round, and deal with the talismans, the same as now!

Devs, the best way is all immunity counters it, including HH and Art Dog. If not It can't aplly to every toon, otherwise there is pretty much no difference from what is already happening.

[iPoop]

Getting caught up here. Boy there’s been a lot of posts!

If you want every piece equal play checkers

This is the quote of the day! Damn did this make me chuckle.

You will never find equality or balance with RNG!

That’s been my experience too!

CG in the past and AoP now are both extreme nerfs that change lots of things and like Gmac said, AoP is dead on PvE and no one complain about it...

I am quite pissed about the AoP nerf. That’s one of the few decent toons that I have! Now my 954 ranking in PVP will be 1000+!

i fully agree, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to reach an optimum of fairness and equality, however that looks like IMO.

Slauki, I respectfully disagree with you. The reason is that “fairness” is often subjective. What you believe is fair and what I believe is fair may be, and likely is, different.

So for those that champion fairness, please be mindful that your fairness may be another’s unfairness. That is why the road of nerfing to achieve fairness never ends…until everything is equal…which some will say is fair…and I will call that checkers.

[Sag7272]

So if I understood everything, I got to start testing immunity set on my Hellhound then he'll work 100% whole team against passive agression on first turn...
Not that far from first assumptions just need an immunity set then Droid or Pyro will take care of it...
Back to the start of the conversation... Almost lol
Tanks all for clarifications, now everyone is on the same page at least