This all is too confusing. Just kill Chuck already.
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This all is too confusing. Just kill Chuck already.
Haha, that made me chuckle. From what I understand, the gimp (if this new idea of passive aggression becoming a debuff is kept) will block all passives on the first turn unless your guys have immunity talis (because that form of immunity isn't granted by a passive). HH/AD won't work unless they are equipped with immunity talis. So, your choices are either to bring a team full of immunity talis and sacrifice some damage, or bring a HH/AD with an immunity set. Passive aggression will go into effect at the beginning of the gimp team's turn, so if you go 2nd but your immunity wears off by the time you take your turn, you'll still have your passives active because passive aggression will only go back into effect when the gimp gets a turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristo4
TL;DR: Yeah, this is pretty fuckin' in-depth and confusing at first haha.
Bizarro Prisoner...Warden Maclo...Handcuff talismans...etc!
Here you go with that logic stuff again! I think some people just don't understand the nature of PvP, it seems this is the first taste for many. Everyone wants to be in 1st place and blames the ways we achieve it on not being fair. There are just some that are simply more motivated/skilled than others. I'm tempted to get Eternal with no Prisoner just to quiet this foolishness.Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoop
That's exactly what buggs me...we were forced to use certain talismans just to face Chuck all this time, and we will continue to do so even more it seems. Also the sacrifice in damage is usually big.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritium
Do it, we are all eager to see that, since no one dared to bench his prisoner. But provide also your last week's stats so we see the difference, for educational reasons only ofcourse. Good luck :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
"Fairness" is at first we all had the same RNG chances at pulling souls...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
That's where it begins & stop, always will be worthless toons, OP ones & the one you miss/need it is made that way..
Would be interested to see how many would actually go without Chuckles for the next few days before the update.. I'm about 99% sure that no one with a Prisoner as he is now goes without him for the last week he is OP.
I don't think I'm wrong. Immunity DOES counter it - unless you can't cast immunity. The Prisoner has a chance to trump the Hellhounds passive ability to cast immunity - BUT NOT IF THE HELLHOUND HAS IMMUNITY TALISMANS. Then the Prisoner can't stop him from granting immunity to the entire party, which neuters his ability to debuff anyone. Safe though first round. Second round and on? Cast immunity as a skill, not a passive - and that immunity on each member continues giving protection from the Prisoner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmac
So send an ordinary Hellhound? Yes - there's a 50% chance you won't get immunity from him. But equip him with Immunity Talismans? You're set - as i pointed out in my original post.
just one question: do you think it is fair that a strategy exists that cannot be countered no matter how "skilled" you are? (look at beta taunt and freezefest for example).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
this was only possible because the prisoner and siege removed every defense ability available and turned this game into a luckfest when going 2nd. where is the strategy part of that, that's a pure gamble...
now 98% of people without a prisoner cannot counter siege, so we are a basicly a two class society, the ones that can play against almost eveyone, and others who highly rely on luck when playing versus many
opponents. this is too much of a difference if you ask me and indeed i think this is highy unfair.
every strategy has to have a counter strategy otherwise this is unfair/unbalanced/OP imo .
Challenge accepted. I'm down by 1,000+ points from 1st place now so if I come back there can be no excuses, let's see how the Prisonerless teams fair. Dropping him from offense/defense now...Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristo4
And I'm out of the race this week (as if i'm ever truly in it with Jofer around ;)) - so this will be really interesting because Fallen Angel (currently number 1) doesn't have a Prisoner either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
Jofer - thanks for livening up the PvP race this weekend!
Oh sh*t, its on! Good luck brother!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
Jofer, while others may make not having the prisoner an excuse not to place top 25, a number of us have placed not only top 10 without the prisoner, but top 10 without the prisoner and without spending on ironite.
I know you can be number 1 based on your dedication/time allotment and strategy without using prisoner. Hopefully you don't get many game crashes.
It takes both time allotment and strategy while having a decent toon build to pull from to achieve no. 1.
Make it so!
😃
Crap, I got to put my 3 kids to bed, good night all.
Excuses for what? Good that you do it, but if you don't do a full week to compare stats, that's still not so relevant. Lets say you needed right now 200 more attacks to go to rank 1, without Gimp you'll need more, since there will be many fuckups vs siege.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
Without before-after stats we'll never know exactly Chuck's impact....and we'll probably never know exactly now that he takes the piss :cool:
Yeah,this is gonna get ugly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
Your one of the guys who most contribute here in this forum as always, thanks for your words of wisdom.Quote:
Originally Posted by slauki
Good luck Jofer! Show all it can and will be done without the pris! You can comment later how hard it was and how many times you were tempted to bring in the prisoner on offense and did you remain strong or you failed under Saturday preassure to run for it. I support your run and I'm not taking revs on you (those defs we eat for breakfast) a few pts won't bug me, but I hope others will revenge more so you get to taste the feeling. Same goses to Fallen. Would you concider making a thread so that we can spam there and not here?(It is interesting to see there is no siege char on you def (anti pris build) but the owerpowered in its every aspect SSD remains @devs, nerf that one's taunt rate)
To all, I hope that you are right and I am wrong this time. I am not sorry to come out strong (minding not to be impolite, just strong in my case and not to take the grudge on person but the idea, I hope you see that). And I will do it every time people are missled, arguments opscure and the logic flawed.
You say if u immunize the hellhound with talis his passive will work. So all toons will be immune. We are talking about the first round. Rounds after that did not matter as we are used to it and have counters for it.
But.. The way I am reading it, immunizing the hellhound wouldn't do it. While it will be immune, therefore not stunned, if you go second his passive can and will still be blocked by pris so other toones are not immune. @Sparton, @kaz, please tell us straight out which is true, we are like geese in the mist with current replies. Tnx.
About the character tuning and the Angel of strife, is there any consideration for change the color of the blue talismant slot with a green one ?
I don't understand the utility of that blue slot ?
Classy move and I'm quite certain you'll prove your point ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
If the devs want to shake up the use of more/different toons in PvP, they should introduce some system for removable skill shards. The true potential of a character is only unlocked when fully sharded. So, even when a character gets nerfed, people will still be hesitant to drop it from their team because a nerfed fully sharded character will still likely be better than another character with no shards. And even with buffs introduced to other characters, we will be slow to start using them because we probably don't have them sharded and don't see the point to use them until they are, which takes a long time. This creates an inert system where players change very slowly. Removable skill shards would increase the pace of change and make for a much more dynamic game.
However, freely removing skill shards would derail their value too much. There are tons of way to limit it of course. I suggest that it is based on a weekly reset, so every week you get the option to remove all skill shards from one character. A second suggestion is that we can earn some kind of dispensable removing tool - a rare resource that when applied to a character would remove all of its skill shards. Whatever way it's done, I think it would be important that while limiting the pace that we could remove skill shards, there should be no built-in discouragement from doing so (e g removing all skill shards from a character would cost you a skill shard as well).
Kinda pointless anyways when u don't know who's benefiting from the low attack bug!Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrice-1201
i respect your efforts, but dropping the prisoner from the defense shouldn't have a huge impac on your hold %, the more important factor remains the number of attacks you suffer from. so this is really not such a meaningfull move. if you really drop him from your offense team, it would be a real huge task to accomplist the 10.000 mark without him. but starting at 5000 points and starting from 1900 is a completly different story and it leads also to some biases. i would really be impressed if you could reach 10k without him. but as aristo pointed out without before/after stats nothing is verified/or falsified and we all know that you are a dedicaded and skilled player, so no doubt about that anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
curious to see what you will do, and it's kinda cool to have some action here. so i wish you good luck and fallen angel too of course. so we only need some cheerleader and some merchandise stuff like jofer, nicko or fallen angel jerseys and caps :D
Not that I love to dig older posts but to be all talking about same things...
It was answered not that long ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by Caretaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz_LOTB
Thanks Sag - with so much discussion it's easy to miss the official response.
So no worries - immunity on Hellhound and your Troll shield will work. You'll resist freeze and stun the first round. And with a Red Pyro or Green Droid, youre fine the rest of the match too.
Ding Dong the Gimp is dead...
As much as it is possible he'll do it - I think you're right - it will be really hard. And if he has no Siege character - it's even harder for him than it would be for anyone with a Blue Bat or DD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caretaker
Jofer - agree with Caretaker -it would be great to have a thread after with your honest observations. Good luck!
So now the must have in PVP will be either hellhound or art dog, nice I don't have neither. Luckily there are immunity talismans, which are yellow by the way, making difficult to wear on a red troll because will make him not so resistant. Off course red troll will be nerfed as well.
Anyways it looks an interesting change on PVP, hope it does not affect new people on PVE
My pleasure, have to say it got pretty technical at some point, at least we all got a better understanding of it all now..Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
:( Farming LoL will never be the same...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
Only good part is to have back the "Mandatory" Prisoner's spot on defense and that's refreshing :)
Of course Sag was right,why do u think it got so quiet! Thx!!! Glad someone else was paying attention. Pointless thread if u ask me! Back to the beginning! Stay of execution was short lived!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
Yeah, tnx sag, I'll look it up.
Hey, if that is so, the counter to immunizing hh is obviously death dog + prisoner = dd removes talis provided immunity on hh and prisoner's passive does the rest of his job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyHarry-2514
TOTALLY AGREE, man. I also play since the begining of the game and i'm sure that there is a little group of players who are getting additional shards and making the gap between them and the rest bigger, and that will kill PVP playing. I'm expecting for the BNW and some other new worlds or levels because I don't think PVP will last too much for "common" players... I'm trying it, really, but i'm sure that i'll be quitting PVP in a few days or couple of weeks if things go on this way.
That IS possible. But not probable - so likely poor strategy. The Death Dog removes effects from "up to" two characters per round. So let's assume it's two - there is a 50% chance of it being your Hellhound. Then, the Prisoner only has a 50% chance of applying his debuff even if the Deathdog did indeed affect the Hellhound. Not great odds all things considered. I think you'll start seeing more Deathdogs than Prisoners - the added benefit from the Prisoner - with the info we have right now - just doesn't seem that incrementally great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caretaker
I have seen very few teams combining the Prisoner with a Blue Bat or DD because of the decrease in firepower or other skills (healing, shields). It simply doesn't make sense - and if we were going to see that combo it would be now - because it has a 100% chance of squashing the new talismans.
So yes - it's possible you may see that if someone wants to roll the dice. But I don't think they'll be very successful.
And now I'm stuck asking myself...
With current state update, how would end passive agression if two prisoners happened to face in the arena?
If it works like I understood t'll now...
Initiative's team passive would (possibly) block other team's passive agression thus nullifying 2nd turn Prisoner's passive?
So 2nd turn team would need an immune set to keep passive agression working with 100% chances...
Way to 'deep' for me! Just do the update & let's play!!! Soooooo glad we started sharing stats! Nicko's 100% is a problem but 98% w/o prisoner is ok...really! No wait,it's on offence. How the hell does anyone know what I do on offence? One of the ONLY secrets left! Then it's # of times attacked...bugged lists have nothing to do with that??? Having a prisoner might lessen attacks but not by much! Especially when the ones whining about it attack me WAY more than I attack them,with identical hold rates...pathetic! Who you gunna blame after the castration!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sag7272
If ur stuck then we're in serious trouble! Ur the one I look to for advice!!! Nicko,Gmac as well! Told Nicko when this update was announced,with all the things that need to work together it's going to be a MAJOR clusterfu<k! Think toons attacking their own team is bad...just wait!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sag7272
You've described 3/4 of a team with that, though. I think it's reasonably to theorycraft that, but suddenly you're running a team that's heavily susceptible to strong Magus AoE (such as Grim Reaper Eddie, or perhaps ironically, Angel of Pain).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
Of course, we'll see when it goes live.
I'm not 100% sure, but start of combat I believe it rolls the same way it currently does (both sides will fire it), but based on who actually has it at the start of their turn, they may or may not try to suppress passives on their turn. This gives an advantage to the team who went first if the opposing Prisoner was Passive Disabled... unless that other Prisoner transfers the debuff back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sag7272
I guess it can become a game of hot potato...
That sounds like quite an amusing scenario haha (the hot potato part). I hadn't even thought of how Prisoner vs. Prisoner will work after the update. Sounds like he may not even be able to counter himself anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparton_LOTB
1200 point lead 5 hrs ago...500 now! Poor FallenAngel!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofer16
Nicko my friend, how would you like 50% proc chance on freeze or paralyisis talismans? Would you? That is way too much. People said freez overproced at 35% haha. And what is taunt rate on ssd sharded? and it proc like hell. So basicly 50% means all the time, don't worry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko
And it is good we didn't, and good we won't, well it is a diversity goal here, isn't it? Don't you want it?
And a few other things. If you go second, knowing you, viking will loot for whatever you want and came out of the passives, and some speed of light could be used in some trade. If you go first, yeah, you won't kill or cc all the bad creatures at once like u used to :) which is good and gives defences a chance
Wellcome to rolling the dice, the game that most of the people are still playing.
It's 50% chance to disable a passive - big difference than being stunned ;). And many will bring a Troll and Hellhound in anyway - I know I always do if facing a non-Prisoner team - so putting immunity on the Hellhound is no big dealQuote:
Originally Posted by Caretaker
I'm not denying it's a different game without the Prisoner and a nerf is needed. I did almost the entire beta with no Troll successfully - got one at the end - and a Prisoner nerf will just cause those of us blowing through teams with him to rethink things. And in a game that can get repetitive - that's not a bad thing
All caught up now, after beating my head against the wall last night and a bit this morning things really started to click. Let's see how much ironite Fallen wants to blow haha now my engines are firing on all cylinders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentknight
And just in case anyone thinks I'm sneaking Prisoner on offense just take a look, I removed his talismans to use on other toons when I made the switch. He's still rocking a pair of boosts but that's because my inventory was full when swapping them out and was too lazy to sell a couple. This should be a clear indicator he's been on my bench while attacking.
Oh and sorry for all the attacks silent, you keep perpetually showing up on my lists :)